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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1063 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Good morning. I want to circle back to the general power of competence that Ian Storrie mentioned. The UK Government has the power to do that and has done that for local authorities in England, but we are in the strange position in which the Scottish Government does not, based on your reading of the devolution settlement, have the authority to give that power to local authorities in Scotland. Is that where we are? That is a strange position to be in.

Do you see value in having the general power of competence? Does it give English local authorities the ability to make progress that Scottish local authorities cannot make? Is there value in having that power in Scotland? If so, should there be conversations with the UK Government about that? That is a question for the minister, too.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Well, yes and no. Brexit impacts on recruitment, but it does not impact on what the actual numbers are. There are shortages, but that is a separate issue—an important but separate issue—to whether the numbers are increasing or decreasing as we speak. The pandemic has been and gone. Yes, there might be some spillover from it, but we can isolate that. Those are all issues but, frankly, I do not think that they are relevant to whether we can agree on whether the numbers are going up or down.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

In effect, we will have to agree that we are not in a position to say what the number is or whether it is going up or down, and we will not be able to get to that position at any point in the future. Is that where we are?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

What we are hearing is that ALEOs and extra responsibilities come in and out of that. On a like-for-like basis, we are not in a position to be able to say whether the number is going up, going down or staying the same.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

I have seen those numbers.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Okay, so, when people say that there are fewer people, that is not correct.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

This is 2023, not 2009.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Okay. I have a question about staff numbers. You will have heard the evidence that we have taken. There was a bit of to-ing and fro-ing on what the numbers are. The published Scottish Government numbers indicate that there have been reasonable increases in local authority staffing levels. The retort to that is that the extra workload requires extra staff and that there have been some reclassifications in relation to arm’s-length external organisations and so on. Taking all that into account, is there an agreed set of numbers, or a desire to work together to publish an agreed set of numbers, that will allow everybody to look at the situation on a level playing field? At the moment, as you can understand, it is confusing when people tell us that there have been staffing cuts but the numbers show the opposite.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Thanks. The number 1 challenge that you face when it comes to resources—you have said that there can never be too much money—is being able to do things more efficiently. We all recognise that there is plenty of scope for that, because the technology is evolving, and there is scope for co-operation, as you have identified, between local authorities and the wider public sector and others. We have not even talked about estates or any of the scope that exists in that regard. I am slightly concerned that you are not able to quantify any of that, given that it is the biggest challenge that you have.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Feelings are one thing, but the numbers are either going up, going down or staying the same.