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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1063 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Of course it is.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Are you saying that you do not think that there is a need for the commissioner?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Clearly, scrutiny is an important part of the work that the commissioner would do. The Parliament would carry out such scrutiny if it involved an SPCB body that had been created under its sponsorship. It is right that that is where it is done. As I have said, the resourcing conversation, which would be similar to that with every other public body, everywhere else that the Government spends its money, would happen through the budgeting process. The Parliament would make its case, and there would be a conversation there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I do not accept that. Looking through a different lens, if we had the Government marking its own homework on some of this stuff, you would rightly be more upset. I think that Parliament absolutely has a role to play. As I said, there is a conversation about resourcing, and there is a place for that conversation to take place.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

There are a few different issues there. On the scrutiny role, the Government wading in and saying that it wanted to hold commissioners to account would clearly not be acceptable, and the Government would not want to do that. Likewise, the Government saying that there should not be certain commissioners could be deemed as straying into that territory.

The creation of commissioners is a different issue. Although it would be the Parliament that would pass any legislation that created a new commissioner, the Government has a significant input into that in terms of both the position that it takes and, even with a minority Government, the weight that it holds in relation to whether legislation is passed by the Parliament. The Government absolutely has a role to play in its assessment of whether new commissioners are required and how they would fit into the broader public sector landscape. That is part of the work that I am taking forward, and it is key.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

As I said, for the ones that have been set up, it is not the Government’s role to stray into the territory of scrutinising the work of bodies that are set up and sponsored by the Parliament and the SPCB.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I was not a Government minister at that point in time. My understanding is that the proposal was made in advance of the ministerial control framework being in place to assess it. As I say, the programme for government will come out in September, and it will contain the work that the Government proposes to take forward.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

In relation to the seven existing commissioners, this goes back to what I said about it not being the Government’s role to decide to close down the offices of commissioners. People would rightly have concerns if the Government stepped into the parliamentary space and said that certain commissioners were no longer required and would be discontinued. Such a review should, rightly, be carried out by the parliamentary authorities.

As I said, there is a process for assessing whether new commissioners are required. The mechanism of including a sunset clause could absolutely be part of the toolkit, if everyone agreed that a commissioner was required and the proposal had passed through the control framework and other assessment processes. A sunset clause might be quite a valuable and helpful mechanism to guard against exactly what you have described.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Yes. I have extracts from the MCF in front of me. The criteria to be considered include whether the function or service could be carried out by an existing body such as the Scottish Government, an executive agency, or any other public body that has already been established. A number of other questions are asked, in a similar vein.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Yes, but the counterfactual is important. If part of what they see as being their role is to change perceptions and priorities, you could argue that, in an advocacy role, that is what they are trying to deliver. They are not necessarily trying to deliver a service.

However, you could also look at, for example, child poverty, and say that Scotland is clearly in a significantly better place than the rest of the United Kingdom. You could argue that there is evidence that supports that, but whether you attribute that to the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland is a matter for debate and for the relevant committee to dig into in more detail.