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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 31 March 2025
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Displaying 1063 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

A number of things are happening there. The invest to save fund is one lever, the orders are another and we have other levers on-going. We have talked about the estates programme, the procurement frameworks, digitisation and the automation programme that has already saved a significant amount of money, and those programmes continue. The invest to save fund is targeted specifically at the harder-to-crack challenges, such as the cross-portfolio co-operation that is required, and there are improvements that might take a period of time to generate savings.

To directly answer your question on the invest to save fund, that process has opened. We have already received the first trawl back of those submissions. Officials are looking at those now, and I will see them in the next week or two. Then, before the end of this month, we will identify the projects that we are taking forward with regard to investment of that £30 million.

Those projects will identify how much investment they want, what savings they will deliver as a consequence and in what timescale. As we select those projects and aggregate them, we will be able to answer the question directly and monitor how they are delivered.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

To flip that, one of the big criticisms that we rightly get from the third sector and many other organisations is that we do not have multiyear funding, and that affects zero-based budgeting. We go back every year with a blank piece of paper and decide who is going to get the money. Rolling that uncertainty out more widely across the public sector could cause more challenges than it solves problems, so we need to be careful about what we mean by zero-based budgeting.

That said, this is about taking a step back to consider the purpose and deliverables of a group of public bodies in a particular part of the landscape and whether the current configuration is the most effective one or whether we should do things differently. At that point, you would start with a blank piece of paper when considering the minimum number of bodies that would be needed to deliver what you wanted and whether it would be cost effective to make a transformation.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

It would be a multiyear approach, because, by its nature, it would take a longer period. You would not do that wholesale; you would look for the low-hanging fruit. To be honest, we have done that in relation to the police and colleges, and we have cited other, minor examples in which the functions of bodies have been brought together. We will continue to look for ways to do that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

You would need to have an evidential base for doing something differently. I suppose that we are working in three dimensions. We are first looking at—as the convener said—how much money an increase would raise. I am looking at the data that is in front of me. Officials will correct me if I am wrong, but there seems to be about 110,000 tonnes at the lower rate, so a £1 increase would bring in an extra £100,000. That would be welcome, but it would not shift the dial on the budget.

If you start to increase that rate by too much and the differential grows, is there the potential for waste tourism? That is the last thing we want, because it makes everything more difficult.

Then there is the question how the current rates are driving behavioural change. With the numbers coming down year on year, it looks as though the tax is having the intended policy impact of driving such behavioural change. However, I would be happy to look at the evidence and to do some modelling as best we can with the information that we have to see what making some changes in future years might deliver.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Sorry, convener—I just want to correct the record, I have just noticed in my notes that there were about 600,000 tonnes at the lower rate, and 110,000 tonnes of that was soil. There was other material in that figure as well, so it is more significant, although not in the big scheme of things.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Indeed, we shall.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

That is a matter for the First Minister, and I do not want to say any more on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

It is already available. It was published last November.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Yes, absolutely. Last year, we did it on historical data, and we are now doing it on budgeted data. We are getting ahead of the curve and we will establish an efficient process. We do not want collection of another big load of data to be put on public bodies. We will update that.

The 2022-23 data is available, and the savings that we have delivered on estates and procurement and other aspects of the hard savings are already there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

I would not want to make any such suggestions. I am sure that the committee will make up its own mind on what matters it wants to put forward. I would say that it is genuinely a privilege to serve as a minister in the Scottish Government, regardless of any issues around salary sacrifice.