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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 31 March 2025
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Displaying 749 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

We probably need a national welding academy, given everything that we need to do.

I have a final question. I hear loud and clear the concerns about removing SAAB. It is not just about having employer or industry engagement at that level; it is about having that engagement when structures are formed. The recommendation has been made in an attempt to simplify the system—that is what it has been sold as—but, although the funding would be simplified by being put in one place, SDS will continue to exist, the career services collaborative has been created, and there will be regional skills planning through the regional economic partnerships that are emerging. If we are not careful, are we in danger of making the system more complicated rather than less complicated? There will certainly be more bodies at the end of this process than there were at the beginning.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

Thank you, convener. I want to begin by ensuring that I have heard witnesses correctly. Damien, we heard you say that it has been a difficult period of uncertainty for staff. Frank, we heard you say that there is a concern that we might not be moving at the required pace to capitalise on opportunities. Is that a correct understanding of your assessment of where you are? Critically, based on what the Government has brought forward, is it clear what SDS’s role will be in the future?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is helpful.

On making the changes and seizing opportunities, you have painted a vivid picture of those opportunities, the scale of the investment, what that will look like and even who we should perhaps seek to attract. You have talked about women and older workers in the workplace. What steps could and should we take now to deliver this? What is in the art of the possible if we move at pace with the machinery and levers that we have in front of us here and now?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will ask you what that will look like but, before I do, I have a follow-up question. Do you, as chair—or Damien, as chief executive—have clarity about what the functional footprint of SDS will be following the passage of the bill? What interfaces will you have with other agencies, or is that yet to be confirmed?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

There is a risk that, if we go at that sort of pace, it will be children who are starting in primary 1 now who are likely to be the first to see the benefits.

Is there also a risk when it comes to focus? The bits of your report that I really like are the bits on skills passporting, flexibility and benchmarking against the SCQF to get parity of esteem. That is all the good stuff, but we have not had any detail from the Government; in fact, we have not even had a road map. Given that, whatever we do, it will take some time even if we would like it to go more quickly, is there not a real risk in the Government not setting out what it believes are its priorities and direction of travel and the broad timeframes for implementing change? Essentially, all that the Government has done is introduce a bill that would merge the funding mechanisms.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

It is not about granular detail; it is about a broad sense of what the priorities are, what we are aiming towards and over what timeframe that will be achieved. That would be helpful, and I have shared that point directly with Graeme Dey.

I think that one of the real priorities is upskilling and reskilling. We have an ageing workforce. Because of demographics, we now have almost an inverse pyramid, so essentially we have to focus on older people. However, we still have a focus on skills being about young people leaving school. We have explicit funding thresholds based on age and a focus on apprenticeships, but older workers might not need to do a whole new apprenticeship and, even if they do, people cannot do more than one apprenticeship in their career. Are we missing that part of the agenda?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

I have a couple of questions about pace and focus but, before that, I want to follow on from Willie Coffey’s question. You are right about the importance of colleges, and you posed a question about focus and what we are measuring. A fear has been articulated to me that we are measuring colleges on their ability to produce university graduates. As part of the culture shift, do we need to question that and think about whether colleges are producing vocational qualifications, and perhaps revisit the move away from part-time courses at colleges?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

Thanks very much.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

What is preventing that from happening? Is it just the college funding model aspects that we have rehearsed and which I get? How do we deliver that?