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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 November 2025
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Displaying 1099 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

That argument has a lot of merit and is compelling. The key question is whether it would be more appropriate for that level of detail to be in the guidance, because I would not want to introduce complexity or difficulties when that might not be possible—for example, it might not be possible to reach a parent before the end of the school day if they do not pick up their phone. I have a small hesitation in saying that it would be appropriate for that to be in the bill but, as a matter of practice, what you have set out is absolutely how things should be done.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is as the funder. The Government is looking at whether it would report on that as a subset of the information, so that we do not end up with confusing data. That would be done for the reason that you set out: such institutions have a very different relationship with local authorities, full stop. Local authorities use institutions such as the one that you mentioned as providers of education, rather than local authorities sitting as regulators of such institutions as providers of education, if that makes sense.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

The relationship is different, but I think that most of those schools engage with their local education authority.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will bring in Roz Thomson to cover the methodology of the bill’s financial memorandum in more detail. I have met the Scottish Government about every six months during the bill process. There has been an extensive level of engagement. It was important for the Government to be aware of the bill, especially given its concurrence with the issuing of its guidance.

Critically, as I said directly to the cabinet secretary, it was really important to me that the bill did not contain any surprises for the Government; that is the approach that I have sought to take. As I understand it, the Government broadly agrees with the numbers that are set out in the financial memorandum. The costs are not overly significant. Mr Kidd is absolutely correct to say that the measures do not add up to nothing. There will be costs of around £3 million in year 1, with similar on-going costs each year, which is not the biggest amount of money in the context of the education budget.

Let us also be clear that we have guidance and that all actors say that the guidance is being complied with. I do not envisage a requirement for any huge alterations to the guidance. There will be a need to revise and reissue the guidance, and there will be some additional implementation costs, but we are taking at face value the assurance from both providers and the Government that there is already compliance.

Roz, do you want to provide some clarity about the more detailed elements of the methodology?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

I am very glad that it is being as supportive as it is now.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

Yes. There was discussion from both directions, to be candid. The Government had considered whether there were ways for it to incorporate the provisions in my bill within other legislation.

On many of the points that have been asked about—especially with regard to Willie Rennie’s question about the GTCS, as well as on some broader points—I feel that the bill might have been better progressed as a Government bill, in some ways, as part of a more comprehensive package. I had been very open to the Government taking it off my hands, so to speak, and taking its provisions forward in other legislation.

The legislative programme has become more congested as we have gone through the session, as we are all aware, but that was part of the discussions. There would have been merit in the bill becoming a Government bill. I also think that there is merit in it being a member’s bill, because it is a way of ensuring that we are keeping pace.

I will try to explain my previous “politician’s answer”. The Government has fundamentally been of the view that there needs to be guidance and clarity in this area—frankly, the guidance needs to improve. The Government had been wary of confronting some of the things that have been described, from the voices that we have heard, and it had therefore been ambiguous as to whether it wanted to put the guidance on a statutory footing, but that had been part of the dialogue throughout the period that I outlined in my introductory remarks.

I hope that that provides some context about the dialogue, and as to whether I think that the proposals could and should be dealt with through a member’s bill or through a Government bill.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

I just want to thank the committee. I hope that I have provided all the answers that you need, but please come back to me if you require any further clarification. Above all else, I want to repeat what I said at the beginning: thank you very much for taking this time—I know that the committee is very busy. This has been a pretty extended endeavour for me, so I appreciate members taking the time and effort to look at my bill.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Daniel Johnson

Apologies for that.