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Thank you for that. There are plenty of issues there for the committee and the Government to consider.

I apologise—I know that it is a difficult question in a very sensitive area. With regard to the instances that have been described, I take the opportunity to pass on my condolences to all the witnesses, who have obviously experienced the loss of friends and colleagues in the service.

It is helpful to get that on the record, because it allows us to clearly say that we have evidence of an overall increase. Katy Clark and Collette Stevenson will agree that that is what the agencies that are represented on the cross-party group that I chair are reporting. They feel that we are on the precipice of another pandemic in the coming period.

My substantive question is about young people’s use of the internet and what we can do to increase safety in educational terms. I know that we have talked a wee bit about that already, but I would like to bring in some of the witnesses at the top half of the table, because the discussion has probably been more focused on those sitting at the bottom half. My question, which is for Alison Penman, is: what more can we do to make young people safe? I have three young children, but it is my 8-year-old who probably falls into the category that we are discussing. She has asked me several times for a TikTok account. There is absolutely no chance that she is getting it—I do not have an account myself; in fact, I do not understand it—but, to be realistic, I will not be able to say no for ever, whether it be for TikTok or whatever replaces it. What can we do to educate our children about this? To be frank—and I am probably not the only parent who will say this—I think that my 8-year-old is more tech savvy than I am. That worries and concerns me as a parent; it worries and concerns my peers and friends whom I speak to; and it is a concern for my constituents. Do you have any advice in that respect?

Thank you for that. The whole subject of children who display harmful behaviours is such an interesting one. It is an area in which society as a whole recognises that there is a victim and a perpetrator wrapped up in a serious situation. This comment would usually be for the committee’s discussion in private, but I want to put out there to the other committee members that I think that we would find that area of great interest if we were to take evidence on it.

My substantive question is about helping families to cope with the new age that we are living in. We are in it, and the internet is going to be here forever. Gina, are you able to talk about what you are doing on that?

I agree with you and others that the visit was very useful. I put on record my thanks to the people who gave us evidence, sometimes sharing their personal stories, which was very helpful.

We heard that a national throughcare service is in place—Wise Group is already providing it—and we were asked to take that into account as we proceed with the bill. That was an interesting point that I wanted to highlight.

I am sorry to keep pressing you on this, because I know that it is a very difficult and sensitive area, and I appreciate the responses that you are giving. We are getting a clear indication from you that anxiety and depression have increased. We would not expect you to do so when they are suffering but, when the time is right, are you going back and asking those officers who are off with anxiety and depression to indicate any work-related pressures that they felt led to that? Do you try to pull that information together?

Thank you for that. With regard to the work that you have described, I think that I speak for all members in saying that I would be interested to hear more about that as it comes in to other local areas.

I thank the witnesses for coming to speak to us about this very difficult subject. It is important that the committee hears about it. I should have said at the outset that I chair the adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse cross-party group in this Parliament, and Collette Stevenson is also a member of that group. The group has real concerns about some of the stuff that we have been hearing about today. I want to ask about the increase in abuse, particularly during the Covid pandemic, because almost every witness has talked about it. I think that I know the answer to this, but it would be good to get it on the record. Are we talking about a real increase overall—I think that we are—or are we talking about better detection methods, particularly on the part of the police? The police have attended several times to talk to the group about how, over the past few years, they have been able to deploy technology that they would not previously have thought it possible to deploy. Does anyone want to comment on the increase and the scale of such abuse? Are we uncovering it more or has there been an actual increase because of Covid and other factors?

My question follows on from the discussion that we have had. I want to reflect on what David Hamilton said.

For the record, I should declare an interest; this is in my entry in the register of members’ interests. Before I became an MSP, I was a social worker in criminal justice and child protection.

What David Hamilton said has always been the case, and I am now thinking about that in a new light, as I am seeing the issue from a different perspective. We were always told that the police were the last resort, and the police were used quite frequently. People would be told, “This is a police matter.” I go back to points that Mr Evans made. Should other agencies have more power and more confidence to take things? It is not necessarily the fault of social workers or health workers if they think that something is a police matter.

Another thing that Mr Evans said chimed with me. He said that we are a society that can call on the police. We definitely do not want to lose that. It is quite a difficult balance to find.

We have heard the term “burn-out” and about the pressures that police officers are clearly under. We all know police officers in our own lives. I have friends as well as constituents who are police officers, and I have heard from the ones whom I have spoken to that they still love their jobs, but they are feeling more pressure than they ever have. I hear that across a range of services.

Maybe ACC Hawkins could answer this question. Has any analysis been done of what the main contributing pressures are that lead to the feeling of burn-out that has been described? We have heard a lot about dealing with mental health and more complex issues. Where does Covid come into it? Where do resources come into it? Has any overall analysis been done?

It is just a wee supplementary to your line of questioning, convener—it is probably for David Hamilton. He said that there might be personal or work-related reasons for suicide. How do we make a judgment on that? Everybody’s life is complicated, and various elements might be intertwined. For example, a person’s work might lead them into substance abuse at home, which might then become the precipitating factor for a crisis. How would the police—or anybody, in fact—identify which factor was more prevalent? Does that make sense?