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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 January 2026
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Displaying 1001 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

It is good to have that clarified, and it brings me to my final question about the important linkages that you have talked about. I welcome the fact that justice and children’s care services are in the same bit of the bill, because the linkages between them are really important—probably more so than the linkages between justice and adult services.

You have brought me on to the housing issue. That obviously will not be coming over to the national care service, because a massive link between it and justice is required and it is probably one of the biggest areas of concern that we hear about. However, the minister has answered what I was going to ask. I was going to ask him whether he had thought about how housing services and other local authority services would work with the national care service, and he has answered by saying that there would be strong links.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I am sorry if I took a bit longer than I should have, convener.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

My question follows on from Katy Clark’s line of questioning and from something that you said earlier in response to the convener. You said that the Cabinet will decide at some point whether justice social work services will move over to the national care service. I want to clarify something that you might have already answered. Were you talking about a decision to move services over or a decision to consult on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Thanks, minister. I do not doubt your commitment. For the record, we very much have to have an open discussion about doing that, because it might be the best way.

That brings me on to my final line of questioning, which is about what the benefits might be of those services going over, and how they might go over. In the document, justice and children’s services are two very separate things. However, just now, they work very closely together. Is it the Government’s intention that both would go over, or is it possible that children and families would go over but not justice? What are the thoughts around that? Do they both need to go or not to go?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Good evening. My question is about something that you have already referred to—the report that the Council of Europe’s Commissioner for Human Rights released last week about her visit to the UK. In that report, she notes:

“trans persons in the UK face increasingly hostile and toxic political and public discourse.”

What is your view on that? Can you comment on the impact that the sort of discourse that we have seen in the course of this debate is having on this or any minority community?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

No problem. Do you need me to repeat it right from the start?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Okay. Can you comment on the impact of such discourse on the trans community here in Scotland, and indeed any minority community?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Thank you, convener. I know that time is tight.

We have heard from both sides, if you want to call them sides, about the need for empirical evidence. You describe needing that evidence in the context of safeguarding and risk management protocols. What evidence on that is there from other countries? In your answer to Pam Gosal, you spoke about data not being collected in certain areas. What evidence has informed your views and interventions on the issue?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Good evening, Reem, and thank you for coming to give evidence today, especially given your tight schedule.

I think that you will have heard a wee bit of the previous session, in which we heard from Victor Madrigal-Borloz. He stated in his letter to the Scottish Government that he was

“concerned about misrepresentation of the existing consensus within the bodies and entities of the UN Human Rights System”.

What is your take on that consensus? How confident are you that your views are also those of the bodies and entities of the UN human rights system?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Thank you very much for that clarification. Convener, am I okay to ask another question?