The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 801 contributions
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
I will be very brief. It is fair to say that we heard quite a lot of evidence on this matter during stage 1. We heard varying views, so I am not surprised by the number of amendments that have been lodged. The two sides of the argument have been quite well expressed and summed up by, on the one side, Rachael Hamilton and, on the other, Maggie Chapman.
During the stage 1 debate, we heard that we want to build consensus on the bill as we go through stages 2 and 3, and we should try to do that on this matter. The cabinet secretary has said that, in taking the bill forward, the decision relating to 16 to 18-year-olds has been one of the most difficult.
Based on what I have heard so far, I am not sure who will press their amendments or take the issue forward to stage 3. However, at this stage, I suggest that Christine Grahame’s amendments find the right balance, so I am inclined to vote for them.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
Russell Findlay put forward a strong argument for his amendments. We took evidence during committee on the issue, and regardless of whether we think that the scenarios that Russell Findlay mentions are plausible, he has outlined that they could happen. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s response on the actions that the Government will take through Keith Brown.
I do not know what Russell Findlay is going to do with his amendments based on what he has heard, but is there any scope for him and the Government to discuss the issue ahead of stage 3? At this point, his amendments are too raw, and we do not know the full implications. As the cabinet secretary suggested, some of the amendments might have human rights implications, and if so, the committee should vote against them, but given that he has raised concerns, perhaps common ground could be reached. Is he considering having further discussions ahead of stage 3, as opposed to pressing the amendments now?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
I want to speak briefly on the amendments that have been lodged by Sue Webber and Rachael Hamilton. As I have said previously, I think that stage 2 will allow us to find a lot of compromise, and I take the opportunity, before he moves his later amendments, to suggest to Russell Findlay that he works with the Government.
With this group of amendments, we are talking about the core of the bill. Some of the evidence that we heard in committee about people needing medical permission for them to be who they are goes against the grain of the bill. I will not go into the whole debate around the three-month period, because I know that time is tight and that those issues have been debated thoroughly. However, with regard to the process for an application, I cannot agree with the amendments in this group. The purpose of the bill is to make life better for trans people, and we must keep that part of the bill.
Although I really want to find compromise as we progress with the bill—I know that the Government does as well—I cannot support the amendments in this group.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
Obviously, the letter and the work of the working group were about parades, specifically. However, people feel that some of the disruption to the community is sectarian, so the work is part of another attempt to address that stain on Scottish society, although, ultimately, it has led to no firm conclusions. In that regard, there is likely to be disappointment. However, there is likely to be understanding of that, too—when I heard about the working group, I thought that that might be the outcome.
I am a wee bit disappointed that the working group and the cabinet secretary’s response were focused on Glasgow. Although that is right because everybody from anywhere in Scotland would know that Glasgow is the most impacted place, Lanarkshire must be a very close second. Reference is made only to “some Local Authorities”. Possibly, that does not take into account the impact that sectarianism is having on communities such as Coatbridge, Airdrie, East Kilbride, Motherwell, Hamilton and Larkhall. Maybe that could have been recognised a bit more.
Local authorities, the police and others are doing all that they can to achieve a balance between observing human rights, including the right to parade, and preventing disruption to communities. If we are to move forward, we must continue supporting our local partners.
Those are simply comments rather than points for action, convener.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
My question goes back to Katy Clark’s line of questioning a wee while ago about reform and how some upcoming reforms, which the committee will consider, could link into the budget process that we are here to talk about.
We will very soon be starting work on the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill, which you will be aware of. It is intended that it will make a big impact on the prison population, although we will need to wait to see how it pans out. A bit later in this session, we will see the proposed criminal justice reform bill, which will be on a mixture of various things that have been talked about for a while, as Katy Clark said.
I do not want you to speak about those bills, as such, because they will go through the normal process, and work on the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill will be starting soon. Have you any early thoughts—yours or thoughts from discussions with the Prison Service—about how those bills might impact on budgets, or is it too difficult to say, just now?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
I was not sure whether you were going to bring me back in, convener, given that Wendy Sinclair-Gieben has already touched on this issue in response to earlier questions.
Throughout the pre-budget scrutiny process, I have been asking other panellists about the interplay with other agencies. I know that you have touched on this already, but if everyone—the Prison Service, the police, community justice and so on—gets a flat cash settlement, what impact will that have on the SPS budget?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
When many of the projected cost implications relate to improvements to people’s working lives, it is difficult for us to be against them.
I, too, have heard that Kilmarnock prison is very well run. That is worth noting.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
Thank you.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
The Government seems to be moving in that direction; we will scrutinise and vote on the bill as it comes through Parliament shortly. Has the flat cash settlement come too early for that bill’s operation, or is there a hope that it could, inevitably, reduce the budget, which is perhaps why there is a flat cash settlement for the Prison Service?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2022
Fulton MacGregor
Thank you for that.
Convener, I have another area of questioning, but I do not know whether you want me to do it just now, or—