Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning, Sandra, and thanks for your presentation on the history of Makaton. I found it very interesting and helpful. You apologised to the committee a couple of times during your presentation, but there is absolutely no need to apologise. You gave a very clear and concise history, and I thank you for that.

My questions follow on from the convener’s question about how Makaton fits into the legal system. You have spoken a wee bit about the police. Do you have any information—I would not expect you to have data—on how often Makaton is used in court settings, be they civil or criminal? Is that something that you have heard about? Have people asked for Makaton to be used in court settings? If so, is it made available to them?

It does, thank you.

Have you come across any examples of an individual—perhaps an advocate—having requested that Makaton be used during court proceedings, where that has not been provided for? We may need to ask the Government or someone who would keep records about that.

I could not agree more with what you have said. That shows the importance of the petition.

Good morning, panel and colleagues, from a sunny but very cold Coatbridge.

I have a question for Nick Bland, but first of all, I want to thank all the witnesses—as colleagues have done—for their evidence so far. Richy, I thank you in particular; I know that it must be difficult to talk about your experience again, but I want to put on record my thanks to you for doing so and, indeed, for continuing to do it in the hope that it will help others.

My question is on one of the advisory group’s recommendations, which is for

“a Commission”,

whether it is

“a single commission ... or another body”,

to be

“given a specific responsibility”.

It comes out of the example of a model in Victoria in Australia, from which we have also heard.

Could that work be undertaken by an existing body, or will it require a new body to be created? What new powers and responsibilities should that body have? As I have said, that question is probably for Nick Bland.

Yes. My understanding is that they can already do that in some instances but, given that the information that we received says that the centres are not for everybody, perhaps they could be expanded.

I back up what others have said. The notes are really good and they capture what we heard from officers, which needs to be taken really seriously.

I will keep my comments brief, because the key points have been clarified and they are in the public domain, but I want to mention the issue that came up about police treatment centres. The one at Castlebrae at Auchterarder was talked about in particular. The consensus is that those centres are really helpful, and I wonder whether their expansion could be looked at. The point was made that, although the centres are there for people who experience any of a range of health issues while they are in the police, that is not necessarily the case when they retire. I think that the help is available only for officers who have retired on physical grounds, although I might be wrong about that. Perhaps that could be clarified in any response. However, if that is the case, will the police consider making that help available to people who have had to retire on mental health or emotional wellbeing grounds as well?

Thanks for that response. There was quite a big statement in it around your feeling that the UK Government is not quite getting the complexities of how its approach could impact on Scottish law on human rights. I know that both of you have touched on this, but what work to advise the UK Government has been done and is continuing? Is there any interaction between the Scottish Government and the UK Government to make the point clear? It would not be good if something happened just because of a lack of knowledge. Does that question make sense?

I also have questions around the national action plan, but first I thank you for those answers. I am sorry if my first question was a bit rushed; I was not expecting the convener to call me that soon. A lesson for me as a committee member is: always be prepared. [Laughter.] I thought that there was somebody else before me, but there you go.

My second line of questioning is around the second Scottish national action plan, which has been touched on already. Will it help the commission to meet its strategic priorities to promote and protect human rights? What contribution will it make to the changing human rights landscape in Scotland?

That is a very important point to make. I have a supplementary question. Do you have any idea how you will be able to measure whether there has been success, whether there have been outcomes or whether things are moving on? Have you thought about the measurement tools?

Thank you very much. I am happy with that, convener.