Seòmar agus comataidhean

I thank Lesley McAra for her response. She has articulated my thoughts on the matter pretty well. Although social work services were not able to commit to it when the various organisations met us recently, it would make sense for there to be a separate team. Therefore, we are talking about significant resource implications and the committee will need to take that into account when it speaks to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice. I would be happy to take that forward.

The convener said to be brief. My final question has the same basis but the witnesses might not be able to answer it. In work that the committee is doing separately, there is also discussion about the possibility of criminal justice social work going over to the national care service—I can see by some nods that the witnesses are aware of that. What impact might that have on the discussion that we have just had?

In light of what the convener said, I ask the witnesses to be as brief as possible.

That reflects other evidence that we have heard in that area, because the proposals are at a very early stage.

I am happy for the other witnesses to answer, convener, or to leave it at that, at your discretion.

Similar to the question that I asked Kate Wallace, and to dig a bit more, do you think that part of the provisions around the powers for justice social work should be that, if there is a specific victim or victims—which might not always be the case—the assessment must include a plan for how that person or persons can be kept safe? This is obviously an area that you deal with.

On a point of order, convener. Although Dr Graham was happy to answer it, I am not sure that my colleague Russell Findlay’s question to her was appropriate. The committee often hears from people who are councillors or who work with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and therefore have specific party allegiances. I have not formed my discourse on this point, but I am not sure that that was an appropriate line of questioning or build-up to the question. I therefore seek your advice or that of the clerk.

It is good to have that clarified, and it brings me to my final question about the important linkages that you have talked about. I welcome the fact that justice and children’s care services are in the same bit of the bill, because the linkages between them are really important—probably more so than the linkages between justice and adult services.

You have brought me on to the housing issue. That obviously will not be coming over to the national care service, because a massive link between it and justice is required and it is probably one of the biggest areas of concern that we hear about. However, the minister has answered what I was going to ask. I was going to ask him whether he had thought about how housing services and other local authority services would work with the national care service, and he has answered by saying that there would be strong links.

I am sorry if I took a bit longer than I should have, convener.

I appreciated your attendance at that cross-party group meeting. A lot of the social work front-line staff who spoke at it were from adult care services. Having worked in that area, I have spoken to a lot of justice and children and families social workers over the past wee while, and I have found that there is trepidation. However, that is nothing new. As we have spoken about in this committee, the issue of justice social work coming into the health service was raised a long time ago—it was not popular at that time and was resisted. I just wanted to put that out there.

My question follows on from Katy Clark’s line of questioning and from something that you said earlier in response to the convener. You said that the Cabinet will decide at some point whether justice social work services will move over to the national care service. I want to clarify something that you might have already answered. Were you talking about a decision to move services over or a decision to consult on that?

Thanks, minister. I do not doubt your commitment. For the record, we very much have to have an open discussion about doing that, because it might be the best way.

That brings me on to my final line of questioning, which is about what the benefits might be of those services going over, and how they might go over. In the document, justice and children’s services are two very separate things. However, just now, they work very closely together. Is it the Government’s intention that both would go over, or is it possible that children and families would go over but not justice? What are the thoughts around that? Do they both need to go or not to go?

I hope that you are not too tired after last night, minister.