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Do we need to convey that image to the judiciary and to sheriffs as well as to the public, or do they understand that?

The cabinet secretary has pre-empted my next question. In a previous session with stakeholders, we considered whether part of the answer would be for young offenders institutions to be modelled more on secure settings. I know that there would be resourcing issues, but, given that there is a very positive impression of secure care, could young offenders institutions be modelled more on secure settings? Would that be a potential answer to the question?

Yes—that is agreed.

Thanks, Kate.

Linda, in response to Rona Mackay, you said that you do not think that the bill goes far enough with regard to age, and I would probably agree with that to an extent; however, I am conscious of the seriousness of offences, which is an important part of it.

How do you think that the Scottish Government can make things better with regard to the appropriateness of remand, to use Kate’s expression, either with this bill or with other legislation that I referred to, or that does not currently exist? How can we ensure that we are using remand at the right time and that we do not have situations in which people are on remand when they should perhaps not be there, which can make things more difficult for them?

Thank you, Linda Allan and Kate Wallace, for your evidence. Linda, it was very powerful when you spoke about your daughter’s description of people who she was in Polmont with. That is why it is so important that we hear that sort of evidence. As others have done, I want to put on record my thanks to you for coming forward.

I was going to say that my question is a wee bit out of left field, but it is related to what we have been talking about. As Kate is aware—she has given evidence on it—and as you might be aware, Linda, through your research, the committee is also looking at the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The purpose of that bill, which is now at stage 2, is to reduce the number of people who are on remand in the first place. There is debate about whether that will work, but that is the main aim of the bill.

Kate, how does that bill overlap with this bill? With regard to the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, we are considering children under the age of 18 not being placed in custodial settings, so do you think that there is an overlap between the pieces of legislation? How can these two pieces of legislation work together?

The end of that response—although it has been a theme throughout our conversation—leads on nicely to my line of questioning, which is also about resourcing. I will split it into two parts.

In my previous life as a social worker working with children and families, I often visited young people who were in secure accommodation. I have to say that it was almost always a positive experience. I visited St Mary’s several times, although that was several years ago now. I thought that it would be good to put that on the record. For the benefit of my colleagues, I point out that such accommodation is very much a secure environment from which, as Jim Shields highlighted earlier, the risk of absconding is extremely low. It also provides a therapeutic environment that can lead to good results, so the idea of more people accessing it makes sense.

My question is for Lorraine Johnstone and Jim Shields. What more can be put in by way of resource, if the aims of the bill are to be met? Is it about bolstering what is already there in the four or five centres, or is it about creating more? Would you like the state, either through the Scottish Government or local authorities, to replicate what you have, or is it about bolstering what is already in place?

I have one further question, which is for Alison Bavidge. It is about the other side—the resources, which you mentioned right at the start. What can the bill do in terms of making use of other resources, at community level, to prevent people needing secure care in the first place? I know that that is the million-dollar question. You have touched on it through some of your answers, but I want to give you a chance to expand on that.

On that basis, would you like there to be a change in who makes the decision? I certainly remember that the chief of the social work department or whatever in a local authority makes that decision. As I think you referred to, previously, it would not be every nine months for some of the cross-border cases; it would perhaps be every four to six weeks.

Would you like a change in who makes the decision? Obviously, there can be a lot of variance between local authorities. Should it be somebody more central, or is it more about training for local authorities?

I have another question for Jim Shields, before he comes in. How does the sector engage and interact with the facilities that are run by local authorities? I have not visited the one in Edinburgh that you referred to.

Jim, I ask you a similar question. In your view, are there particular challenges for people in exercising their human rights in combating discrimination?