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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 April 2025
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Displaying 888 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

It is probably a good point for me to ask my first question. Much of our discussion has been about where community justice sits with other services. We have been talking about drug and alcohol services, which are in the health space, and there has been quite a lot of talk about children’s services.

What are your thoughts—not from a policy angle, but more considering the budget-related possibilities and concerns—on the proposals for a national care service? At this point, it has not been proposed that justice services could be included in the proposed national care service, but there are proposals for the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill to include a provision so that justice services could be brought in at a later date. Our committee is not convinced on that and we have made our views known, and I have my own views on that proposal.

That aside, given what we have talked about regarding the justice system’s interaction with other services, what budgetary possibilities do you think that the creation of a national care service could bring, and what concerns would you have about that? I know that the question is broad, but I am interested to hear your views. I think that it has been a year since we have directly discussed your position on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

So that would be a concern for you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

That is interesting.

My next question is probably for Lynsey Smith. It comes from my own experience as a criminal justice social worker; I will tap into that, although it is a while ago—coming up for eight years now—since I last worked in the sector.

Is Social Work Scotland thinking about the workload of criminal justice social workers in particular, and whether it can make asks of the Government or various other agencies in that regard? I will set out what I mean by that. I am not giving away any secrets by saying that social work has moved to almost 70 per cent or 75 per cent of the job involving paperwork at times—you will hear that quite a lot. There are risk assessments for social workers to fill in when they are working with an individual, and there are reports and various other assessments to be done, too.

Is anything happening that could perhaps free up a bit more time? That would almost have a budgetary effect, as there would be more direct intervention. I know what the challenges are, because I have done the job. The challenges are real—there are various different people wanting assessments for everything. What are your thoughts on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

I do not know how quick my question will be, convener, because it is quite general. It is probably for Karyn McCluskey and Keith Gardner.

I certainly do not need to be convinced of the societal change that needs to happen. However, I feel that, although you have spoken about this being an opportune time, there seem to be so many barriers in the way.

What would you say to the committee, and to the Scottish Government, about that? What case would you like us to make for more investment in community justice services to deliver the results in a way that will mean that society will come with us? How much time do you think that we need in order to see that change? It is not going to happen overnight.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

Have I got time for another question, convener?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

Did you want to come back in, Lynsey?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

Keith, do you want to respond?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

What would be your plea?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

Good morning. I want to discuss the pay of the local government workforce. It seems that, every year, there is what is almost a scramble around pay negotiations involving the Scottish Government, COSLA and various others. There are last-minute meetings, deals are done and so on. It always seems to be a wee bit chaotic—certainly, that is the feeling that we sometimes get in this place. What needs to be done to ensure that that is not the case and that the issue of pay is managed more sustainably next year and beyond? Are there any solutions that you could present to the committee?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

I will follow up on the questions about local government pay demands that I asked in the previous session—I do not know whether you have had a chance to review what was said, cabinet secretary. We all know better than anybody that there is almost a scramble to get things over the line every year. You might have heard some of the suggestions that were made in the previous session about how things could be done on a more managed and sustainable basis. Do you have any ideas about how things might be done next year or any suggestions about how the process could be improved?