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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 April 2025
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Displaying 1931 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I am confident about the measures that we are bringing forward. I know that a number of views were expressed when the committee took evidence. Again, we are considering all of that but, ultimately, this is about creating more fairness in the processes and provisions that we are introducing.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

In the policy memorandum, we set out why we have taken the approach that we have taken, and whether any alternatives were considered.

It comes back to striking the right balance—not being too prescriptive and allowing for some flexibility—because we recognise that land will be very different across Scotland. However, ultimately, we want to achieve a number of high-level outcomes, such as tackling the climate and nature crises, delivering our vision for agriculture in Scotland and being a global leader in sustainable and regenerative agriculture.

We have been listening to the evidence on that and we are keen to hear the committee’s views in its stage 1 report. As Andy Proudfoot touched on, more guidance will be issued and there will be further consultation on what will be included in the land management plans. However, we hope that the high-level overview of our ultimate ambitions strikes the right balance.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I completely appreciate and agree with your point, but we need to make sure that the proposals that we introduce are evidenced, so that they stand up to scrutiny. I am not averse to considering that point, but we would have to give greater thought to how that might work and what the evidence base for that might be. I understand the concerns that were raised in evidence in relation to that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I have listened to the evidence on that. First of all, the land management plans and the local place plans have different aims, so they have different purposes. My concern is that local place plans are not universal. I think that a review is due to be undertaken this year—I am sure that Andy Proudfoot will correct me if I am wrong—in relation to how local place plans are operating. It makes sense for that to be considered through the land management process, but I would be reluctant to introduce that into the primary legislation. Given the different nature of the plans, perhaps that is more appropriately addressed in secondary legislation or guidance. However, it makes sense for there to be some consideration of that because local place plans are important in identifying the local communities’ needs.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Absolutely.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Different forms of guidance have already been published. For example, the Scottish Land Commission has guidance on what good community engagement looks like.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

It is not for me to sit here at this time, without undertaking wider engagement and discussion, and say specifically what people will have to do. As I said, we have principles in place that have been published by the Scottish Land Commission that people can look at to see what can be expected.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Yes. Ultimately, we have to ensure that fines are proportionate, but we are keen to hear members’ views.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Do you want me to search for them and read them out? I would be happy to do that or to send them to the committee.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I cannot outline to you right now every piece of guidance from the Scottish Land Commission, but that information is publicly available, and I am happy to send you it. However, as MSPs, we all know and have seen in our areas what good and bad community engagement looks like.

We want to make sure that the process is meaningful. To me, a meaningful process is about direct engagement with people. Bad engagement is when you put a form on a website and expect people to tick a box and, essentially, that is it. We want to make sure that the process is meaningful and that people feel that their voices have been listened to. There are good and bad examples of that, but we have guidance available. All this will be subject to further consultation to make sure that we are clear on what our expectations are.