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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 November 2024
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Displaying 1736 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

There are specific concerns in some areas. As we have gone through the process, those policy areas have gradually started to emerge. I remember discussing the food and feed safety and hygiene framework, which I mentioned earlier, at a previous appearance at the Health and Sport Committee. Discussions were held in relation to the framework and a potential divergence in policy on genetically modified organisms. That could be impacted.

Other areas are emerging, too. If it would be helpful, I would be happy to follow that up with the committee and outline current areas of concern in relation to the internal market act. One of the key concerns in relation to agriculture is the Subsidy Control Bill, which you said we will come on to, given that it is working its way through the UK Parliament.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Absolutely. You made an important point on the portrayal of a lot of jobs as “low skilled”. I refuse to use that term because—you are absolutely right—those jobs are highly skilled, and it does not help to portray them in such a light.

What I outlined and announced yesterday was on the back of the Migration Advisory Committee’s recommendation to develop a pilot scheme on rural migration. In February last year, our expert advisory group on migration and population published a report on options that could be explored when developing the visa pilot scheme. Three potential options were outlined in the report.

In looking at options, it is not as though we are doing something completely new. Different schemes are currently in operation throughout the world, and there are many different examples that we can learn from.

For example, one of the three potential options that are outlined in the report is a remote and rural partnership scheme, which is modelled on the Canadian Atlantic pilot scheme. Such a scheme would be employment based and would be part of a wider partnership with local authorities, employers, public services and the voluntary sector, which would play a more active role in identifying which areas and employers would benefit the most from the scheme, and would be engaged in delivering an integration plan. There are also proposals for a Scottish visa that look at how we can expand the skilled worker route.

We are keen to work with the UK Government in, I hope, delivering much of that. The previous Home Secretary had been willing to commit to that, so we hope that that commitment is delivered in full and that we get the support to continue that work. It is certainly the case that we are not standing still on the matter. We have lots of different ideas about how such schemes can work in Scotland’s best interests. I put forward just some of those ideas yesterday.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

No, those proposals do not work. That has probably been shown by the numbers of people who have taken up some of those initiatives. We can look at this the opposite way round, and this is part of the problem with the visas that were given for certain occupations a few months ago. The visa for butchers, for example, was for about six months. Who is going to uproot their life for such a short period of time knowing that there is no opportunity to stay on beyond that period? That is essentially what we are asking people to do—to uproot their lives and move to another country. I do not think that a lot of people would find that to be worth their while for such a short window of time.

Some of the initiatives were for a few months only. When we analysed the time that somebody would be able to spend in the country by the time their visa application had been processed, we saw that it was somewhere in the region of six to eight weeks for some of the occupations for which three-month visas were proposed. Those are all short-term ideas that do not go anywhere near to addressing the crises that a lot of these industries face.

I know that a lot of sectors feel that there have been specific exemptions, such as for butchers, but those exemptions have not been applied to other sectors that are also facing critical shortages. That has caused a lot of concern.

There are a lot of outstanding issues. That is why we repeatedly call for these issues to be addressed. As we announced yesterday, some of the pilot work that we are trying to do ourselves is looking to address these issues in the medium or longer term. We want to work with the UK Government on solutions, but it takes both of us to be willing to look at them and to engage meaningfully. We are certainly willing to do that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I do not think that there is any question that those issues might have been exacerbated by Brexit because it absolutely has exacerbated them.

You spoke about depopulation of some of our rural areas and islands. We have spoken in previous meetings about initiatives such as the islands bonds, the rural and islands housing plan and the investment in connectivity, and they are vital in trying to address the endemic issues that we face in those areas.

I engage with our stakeholders. I go out to speak with our farmers, our fishers and our food and drink businesses, and all I am saying to you is exactly what is being said to me about the availability of labour. At some point before Christmas, the Prime Minister was quite insulting when he said that all the jobs are low paid and people need to improve their working conditions, as if that would solve all the problems, which is not the case. It did not matter how much some of those businesses were offering; they were just not able to attract people to fill the positions.

We really need some meaningful interventions to address these critical issues in the immediate term. That is why we have repeatedly called for a number of different initiatives and for meaningful engagement from the United Kingdom to address some of these problems.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

The measures that are proposed in the bill will have a significant impact as they stand. As I have said, the maximum number of animals that can be imported will be five per vehicle, which is already a significant change. Again, though, we are in constant discussion with animal welfare organisations; indeed, I am due to meet the Dogs Trust, and I will, no doubt, have that conversation with it. It is important to have that discussion with such organisations, and then discuss with other Administrations the question whether further amendment is needed. Obviously, I am more than happy to have the discussion and to consider the matter fully.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

Highly trained inspectors undertake that work. That is also the point of the statutory instrument, because it means that we can focus our resources and that more inspections will be enabled than would happen if it was determined that they were to take place at a customs checkpoint, which would split the resources that we have and would take our inspectors away from the work that they are currently doing and the checks that they already undertake. It therefore allows us to better utilise the resource that we have at the moment. The SSI does not change any of the checks that take place; all that it does is change where they take place.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

We are not looking to stop legitimate movements of animals. However, we have a significant problem when it comes to the illegal trade of puppies, in particular, that come into the country. It is important that we get the balance of measures right. That is why we are in constant discussion with various animal welfare organisations, the British Veterinary Association and the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission to look at the proposals. I think that what is proposed will significantly impact the illegal trade, which is what we want to clamp down on.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

That is what the bill gives effect to—it gives us the power to make further regulations should we want to make changes to animal transport legislation. Again, however, given the nature of movements of livestock, in particular, throughout GB, it makes sense for us to discuss it with other Administrations if we are to make changes.

We consulted on the issue early in the year, and we recently published the response to that consultation. However, if we are going to make any changes to animal transport, we will also consult on any proposals that come forward, because we want to ensure that we do not disadvantage those who live in our remote and island communities when it comes to animal movements.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

I believe that the draft standards that are being proposed are due to go out to consultation shortly. I am not aware of those concerns—they have not been raised directly with me—but Andrew Voas might have more information on them or on whether they have been raised with officials.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

An awful lot of work has had to be undertaken very quickly since we left the EU. As I said, in effect, this Scottish statutory instrument puts into legislation what has been happening in practice with the checks at the place of destination. That is why it is being brought forward now.