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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 28 November 2024
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Displaying 1736 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I absolutely do. On that point, when I visit farmers—for example, though the farming for a better climate group and the soil regenerative group—those are certainly the points that I have been hearing. I meet many people who are already well on their way and doing everything that we would hope that people would do to reduce emissions to the lowest possible level while producing food and also doing what they can to enhance nature and biodiversity on their farms.

That is also a key point that has come through our ARIOB discussions. It can seem that we are only rewarding the people who are just at the start of that journey and have a lot of work to do, but it is also important for us to reward the people who have already been doing the work and continue to do it. The proposals that we brought through for the consultation would, I think, show that that is certainly what we intend.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I am sorry. On your first point, I do not think that the pressures that we are under in the directorates that I am responsible for are different from those across Government. We all have limited resource and we are all under increasing budgetary pressure. We are, of course, trying to maximise our efforts and do whatever we can. I made the points earlier only to show that a lot of work is already under way in the department, and that continues to be the case because we have to roll out the current payment system and we need to roll out the national test programme as well as looking to develop future policy. We are doing that as quickly as we possibly can.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Right from the start, we set out that the co-development of our future policy would be really important for some of the reasons that I outlined to Rachael Hamilton, because we need to make sure that the policies that we introduce will work. That is where the consultation that we have launched is really important, too. In that, we ask about the unintended consequences of some of the actions that we are proposing and whether there are any issues that we have not identified that we need to be aware of. We want to make sure that it is workable, and the ARIOB has helped to feed into that process, which has been really important.

We want to work with the industry and all the different interests in order to take people with us on this journey. There is no point in our hiding away and developing a policy that we cannot implement or that is not going to work. We also need to make sure that it delivers on the vision for agriculture that we set out earlier in the year, in which we talked about wanting Scotland to be a global leader in sustainable and regenerative agriculture. We want a thriving rural economy and our farming businesses to be resilient, because we have seen a series of shocks over the past few years and know that there will probably be loads more challenges coming down the line, too. This is about making sure that we have a future payment framework that will be flexible and adaptable to some of those challenges in the future.

The work of the ARIOB has been important in helping us to develop the proposals in the consultation and to develop the national test programme in a way that will work. It will continue to be important as we look to develop the detail with which we can bring forward an agriculture bill, and it will feed into that process as we move forward.

09:15  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

On the back of what George Burgess said, I do not want that perceived dichotomy to exist, because it is not a case of either/or. People are doing all of those things.

Our farmers and crofters are the stewards of the land, and many of them are already undertaking the practices that we want. I would again highlight some of the networks that I talked about earlier. For example, in forestry, people can integrate trees into places where we can better stitch them into the landscape without harming productivity or efficiency. It is important that we highlight such examples to people to show what is out there and how it can be done. I do not want to go down the track of saying that this is an either/or situation, because we know what can be done. The soil regenerative agriculture group, too, is looking at all the improvements that can have a big impact, as is our agriculture, biodiversity and climate change network.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is what has been budgeted for this year.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That has been a concern that we have had in discussing with the committee the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and the Subsidy Control Act 2022. We have been concerned about some of the principles in the 2022 act and the impact that they could have on our ability to fund or put in place agriculture programmes that we would look to fund here.

Those are our concerns. We already know that we have a shortfall of around £93 million in our budget up to 2025, because we have not had the full replacement of European Union funds. That is a concern, but we are working with the budget that we have and trying to achieve everything that we want to achieve within those limitations.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is absolutely my commitment. We are talking about our food security and the future of our food production, so we have to ensure that we enable that to continue to happen in Scotland. Also, farming underpins the whole of our rural economy, so we have to make sure that it continues. However, we do not have clarity on funding.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I agree with your comments. There is no doubt that the fishing industry did not get what it expected or, in fact, what it was promised through Brexit with regard to access. We have been working as best we can on this matter. Indeed, whenever we go into negotiations, our ultimate objective is to do our best for the Scottish fishing industry and Scottish interests.

As far as the negotiations are concerned, I am sure that Allan Gibb will want to say a bit more about the process, if that will be helpful. Of course, this year’s process has not yet started, and we know that there has previously been some challenging scientific advice about some of the stocks.

Officials are also working to ensure that we are having an impact on, for example, the design and functioning of the specialist committee for fisheries.

Again, I repeat that our key objective in these negotiations is to do what we can to protect Scottish industries within the deals that have been negotiated.

Allan Gibb can give you more information on the negotiations.

10:00  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We always try to be optimistic, in spite of the challenges that exist. However, I know that the industry faces a lot of challenges at the moment, some of which we have touched on today. I know that the industry is feeling the pressure and is concerned about the spatial squeeze that exists. In that regard, I would point to the blue economy vision that we have set out and to the next steps that we will be setting out in relation to that. As ever, when we talk about challenges, we must also talk about opportunities. We talked about our food security, and our fishing industry will continue to be important in relation to providing us with a sustainable source of protein. We are looking to enhance the value that we can get from that, too.

One thing that we have not touched on today is the issue of the economic link provisions that we plan to introduce next year, which will ensure that more fish are landed in Scotland, so that we see the benefit of that, too. That will be important and represents a positive step forward.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Remit

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Mairi Gougeon

The aquaculture industry is very innovative and we are seeing lots of technical advances throughout it. That is particularly encouraging and exciting for me to see. The industry is changing all the time, and there is much investment in looking at that and at how the sector can improve its environmental performance and become more sustainable. It is important that we are able to support that and enable that innovation as we go forward.

We broadly accepted some of the other recommendations that Professor Griggs made, and we want to try to make progress across the recommendations as quickly as we can, where that is possible. We know that some recommendations will take a bit longer than others.