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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 February 2026
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Displaying 3801 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the seventh meeting in 2026 of the Public Audit Committee. Our first agenda item is for the committee to consider whether to take items 4 to 8 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

The first item of public business for us is consideration of two reports: primarily the Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland report entitled “Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care”, along with a briefing note, which is also a joint production by the Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland, entitled “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”.

I am very pleased that we are joined this morning by Caroline Lamb, who is director general for health and social care and chief executive of NHS Scotland, and Derek Grieve, who is director of health and social care performance and delivery for the Scottish Government.

We have some questions to put to you on the report and the briefing note, but before we get to those questions I invite the director general to give an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

As a very quick question, are people eligible for legal aid to help them to pay for that? The documents for establishment of power of attorney are not inexpensive, are they?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

As I mentioned at the start, you are the chief executive of NHS Scotland, so you must be concerned—must you not?—when you see figures such as

“11.7 per cent of hospital beds being unnecessarily occupied”

by people because of delayed discharge. That is 720,000 days that are lost because of delayed discharge, and two thirds of those delays involve people over the age of 75. What is your response to that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Does it not then become a test of whether or not the agency’s action is “reasonable”?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Okay. Colin Beattie has some questions for you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

We will follow that up.

The deputy convener will now put some final questions to the witnesses and wrap up the session.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Thank you. Before we finish, Graham Simpson has a quick follow-up question.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

I thank Michael Oliphant, Stuart Nugent and the Auditor General for their evidence this morning on this important report.

We will convene a special meeting of the committee on Tuesday 17 March, when we will take evidence from the chief executive of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency, as well as from the Scottish Government’s director general corporate, because there is some responsibility in that quarter, too. We look forward to that session, when we will be able to put some questions to them.

As I understand it, Auditor General, this is the final public session of the Public Audit Committee that you will attend. I say, on behalf of the committee, a great thanks to the staff at Audit Scotland, and especially to you, for your outstanding leadership of the organisation. The public service that you provide, the spotlight that you shine, in the public interest, and the quality and standard of the work that you produce are exceptional. It has allowed us, as a committee, to scrutinise public bodies in the way that we have been able to do over the past five years—at least, while I have been chairing the committee, because Colin Beattie goes back even further. The work that you do provides not just this committee and Parliament, but the public, with a hugely important public service. I wanted to put that on the record, on behalf of the committee.

12:15

Meeting continued in private until 12:47.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Okay. I have just one particular area that I want to ask you about, which is mentioned in the report: the whole issue of power of attorney. That gets us almost into a legal area, does it not? It is about whether people have access to established power-of-attorney arrangements with their relatives or with whoever. That is seen to be one of the reasons why we have delayed discharge: because those arrangements are not in place. Could you shed a bit more light on that and perhaps explain what the Government is doing to tackle it? That seems to be one of the driving forces behind delayed discharge and people getting caught up in the system.

09:45