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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 December 2025
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Displaying 3630 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

That is fine. It is just that, in the course of this morning, we may turn to things that the Auditor General said.

Mr Watson, do you want to say anything at the outset?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Yes, but I do not think that any of us would accept that there was nothing to see here, Mr Watson.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

That is not how the Auditor General viewed the situation when he gave evidence to us on 8 October, and we can return to that.

One of the things that have been reported is that, under your tenure as the principal and chief executive, there were five different finance directors. Why was that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Joe FitzPatrick in a second, but can I just take you back, Mr Watson, to some of the fundamentals here? When we took evidence from the Auditor General on 8 October, he said:

“I ... cannot recall, from my time in this role and during my career of auditing public bodies in Scotland, an organisation that has not prepared an annual budget.”

In your time—in your career—Mr Watson, have you ever been part of an organisation that has not prepared an annual budget?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

We are talking about an organisation that is governed by the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Act 2000 and is subject to the Scottish public finance manual. We are not talking about a private enterprise. We are talking about public money, which is why we expect certain standards to be met.

The Auditor General said:

“a budget gives an organisation an anchor with which to measure how it is progressing during the year.”

Margaret Cook, do you not accept that that is a fact?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

This is my final question before I bring in other members of the committee.

I would be interested in your view on the Auditor General’s comment:

“we cannot help but conclude that that”

budget’s

“absence must have been a significant factor in the board of management being less able to control financial arrangements during that time.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 8 October 2025; c 5, 6, 2.]

You are shaking your head, Mr Wishart. I take it that you do not agree with that view.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, but my point is that you have set aside your own financial regulations, both in your position and the position of the former principal and chief executive. I would also suggest that the people on the board have set aside their obligations under those financial regulations.

I will invite Joe FitzPatrick to come in on this budget question, before I invite Graham Simpson to ask his questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. Graham Simpson has some questions as well.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Mr Watson, would you be willing to give us a copy of that December 2024 letter and for it to be placed in the public domain? Also, did you write that letter on behalf of the whole board, or was it a personal letter?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That is helpful.