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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 January 2026
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Displaying 3697 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 34th and final meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.

Under the first agenda item, do committee members agree to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Our main agenda item this morning is consideration of a section 22 report on the 2024-25 audit of the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts. I am pleased to welcome to the committee the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle. He is joined by Carole Grant, audit director at Audit Scotland, and Richard Smith, senior audit manager at Audit Scotland. We have a wide range of questions for you this morning, Auditor General, but before we ask our questions, I invite you to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. On your final point, I am sure that we will take full evidence from you in due course on the report that came out yesterday. Nonetheless, we may have some questions this morning about some of the issues that are raised in that section 22 report.

I will begin with one of the themes that came out when the report on the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts was published. There was some discussion around the levels of underspend. My primary question is whether you think that the levels of underspend that are reflected in the consolidated accounts are reasonable.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. Can I just interrogate that a little bit more? On the social justice underspend of £164 million, are you saying that that is unspent money on cladding remediation, for example? Did you also say that it is part of the social security budget, or have I picked that up wrong?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, and thanks for answering those questions. I now invite the deputy convener to put his questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Mr Simpson. I now invite Joe FitzPatrick to put some final questions to you, Auditor General.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

I am a revolutionary, Mr Crosby.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I would like to go back to the 5 per cent vacancy factor, which is a major part of your savings plan. First, that is quite a blunt instrument, is it not? It is not something that is entirely within your control. Secondly, as we have discussed before, it can be detrimental to the morale of the workforce if people are leaving and it is a deliberate plan not to replace them. How are you managing that? Underlying that, I am challenging you—is it an ethical thing to do?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Other members of the commission might also have questions on staffing, but I want to move on to another area: the future of public audit model. In paragraph 35 of your submission, you talk about a

“root-and-branch review of public audit”.

Do you anticipate that that will deliver savings?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

So that I understand how it works, is there a default position? Is it automatic that the filling of a vacancy is delayed? Or are some positions so important to the organisation that you would begin recruitment straight away? If you reached a 10 per cent vacancy factor during the 10th month of the year and people left at that point, would you recruit immediately? How does the dynamic of that work?