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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 April 2025
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Displaying 3006 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Richard Leonard

To go back to the question of proportionateness, I put to you the evidence that we heard from the Scottish Information Commissioner, who characterised the situation around audit as being

“a never-ending cycle of constant audit for us”.—[Official Report, SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, 20 February 2025; c 16.]

Do you recognise that characterisation?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you—that is helpful.

I put the same question to Colin Smyth.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Richard Leonard

On the question about an advocacy role versus a regulatory role, what do you think the balance would likely be?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Richard Leonard

I welcome everyone to the eighth meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. Under agenda item 1, do committee members agree to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private this morning?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Richard Leonard

I am going to move swiftly along. I invite Stuart McMillan to put some questions to you on public service reform.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Graham Simpson, do you have a final question?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Fifty-five thousand. I am sorry—less is more, as I keep saying. I am trying to take you at your word. We might get it down to 11,000 before the end of the meeting.

My point is that the fact that there are lots of words does not answer the point that is made both in the report and in some of the other evidence that has been presented to us, which is that insufficient attention is paid at the ground level—not as a retrospective add-on—to budget decisions, which is what we are speaking about in this context, and how they affect different groups in society differently.

We might return to some of those themes, but I will move on and invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Richard Leonard

You have said that some publications will be produced over the next couple of months, and you have referred to the medium-term financial strategy. There was previous criticism from a range of parties, not least the Auditor General, that there did not seem to be any real reason why a medium-term financial strategy could not have been produced earlier. We have been told that there was a general election and then an autumn budget statement by the incoming Government, but the consensus seems to be that a strategy could have been produced.

Anyway, a strategy is coming out in May this year and there has also been reference to a fiscal sustainability delivery plan. Please give us a bit more detail about what level of information will be contained in those two pieces of work, why it is necessary to have two and what different roles they perform.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Richard Leonard

That was a very comprehensive answer—there is quite a lot to take in. It is only when we see written documentation that has been generated by that thinking that we will be able get a proper analysis of, and apply proper scrutiny to, what has been proposed.

Going back to what we do know, I note that key message number 1 in the report that we are considering this morning is, frankly, a criticism that the Government appears to be locked into a fairly short-term culture. That key message says:

“The Scottish Government continues to take short-term decisions, reacting to events rather than making fundamental changes to how public money is spent. This approach has so far been effective in balancing the budget”—

you made that point, Ms Stafford—

“but risks disrupting services at short notice and restricting progress towards better long-term outcomes for people.”

We have heard what you have told us, but what can you do to reassure us that there will be a change in culture from short-termism to at least medium-termism, if not long-termism?