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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 3014 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

I invite James Dornan to put some questions to the witnesses, which will continue with the theme of staffing and the position of the workforce in the colleges sector and how that has been funded and handled.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I will turn to a fairly routine but fundamental question that we ask witnesses: do you accept the findings and recommendations in the Audit Scotland briefing? I ask Neil Rennick to answer first.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Mr Boyle, does the Scottish Funding Council accept the findings and recommendations?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

I said in the session with the Auditor General that it is important to put on the record that colleges provide an important bridge for people from disadvantaged backgrounds and deprived communities—a bridge into work, a bridge into retraining, a bridge into higher education from further education for some, and a bridge from social isolation. When I speak to people in the colleges sector, they tell me that there are some “perpetual students” who keep enrolling on courses. In part, that performs a certain social function. People who otherwise would be left behind, would be isolated and would be cut off from society find some purpose in life by enrolling on college courses.

Going back to my first question, I am asking whether you have made any assessment of whether the contraction of courses available has or will have unequal impacts on learners.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

I think that there will be some questions later on the funding formula.

I will move us on to another area that is contained in the Auditor General’s briefing, which is the job evaluation process for support staff. We have followed up on that with correspondence with College Employers Scotland, Unison and Unite. I should point to my entry in the register of members’ interests and my membership of Unite the union. The picture that we get back from College Employers Scotland is that it is committed to the job evaluation process for non-teaching staff and that it is committed to backdating any agreement through the job evaluation process to, I think, 2018.

There are various perspectives on that. The Unison perspective seems to be fairly frank and robust. The response from Unite finishes by saying:

“Unite and our members have lost faith in the project, some members have also lost interest, but other members are frustrated as they are confident that job evaluation would have delivered an increase in pay which they have been waiting for this last 5 years or so.”

There is pent-up demand, and there is an outstanding job evaluation process. It seems, at least from reading the replies that we have had from the employers and the trade unions, that there is a willingness to get the issue resolved, but that has financial implications. How is that going to be funded?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Does the Scottish Government or the minister not have any responsibility for making sure that the outcome of the job evaluation process is an objective assessment of whether people are being paid correctly? Some people may get paid less as a result of the job evaluation, but there is obviously also an expectation that some people will receive an uprating in their pay to reflect their duties. Does the Scottish Government not take any responsibility at all for that?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Many people have been calling for that for a long time. How do you achieve that when, as we were told earlier in the evidence session, individual colleges work with their regional economies and local employers? How do you get a national strategic approach to skills planning that takes a longer-term view about the direction that the economy is going in and the skills of the future that we will need that might be different or adapted from the skill sets that we are training people for at the moment? How do you reconcile the local and the national?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Just to be clear about the process, if the job evaluation exercise is concluded and, as a result, there is a net additional staffing cost for non-teaching staff, the Scottish Government will stump up the money to cover it and hand it over to the Scottish Funding Council, which will, in turn, make sure that colleges can pay the non-teaching staff what they are now due—and there will be a backdated element to that.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you next. There are some themes that we might return to before we conclude.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

We are going to come on to that point. My understanding is that the range of college courses has contracted as a result of those flat-cash settlements and real-terms cuts.

Mr Rennick, I think that you said in your opening statement that learners at our colleges are disproportionately from the least advantaged communities. Have you carried out any equality impact assessments or economic impact assessments of the reduction in courses?