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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 3014 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning, and welcome to the 32nd meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee. The first agenda item is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Richard Leonard

The second agenda item is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 23 report “NHS in Scotland 2024”, which is a finance and performance report. I am pleased to welcome Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General, to this morning’s meeting. He is joined by the following colleagues from Audit Scotland: Carol Calder, audit director; Leigh Johnston, senior manager; and Bernie Milligan, audit manager.

We have a wide range of questions on your wide-ranging report, Auditor General. Before we get to those questions, I invite you to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Graham. I invite Colin Beattie to continue with some questions on the theme of financial performance.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Richard Leonard

Auditor General, I thank you for resisting the temptation, which members of the committee have put your way several times, to offer clinical judgments. I really do not think that it is fair to ask you to make those judgments.

One area that you are more comfortable and qualified to talk about is highlighted in paragraph 100 of today’s report. That is a recent report by the chief medical officer that talks about the need to focus on

“equity, prevention and early intervention”.

I recall that, in the report, “Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”, on which we considered evidence last week, you once again used, as a touchstone, the Christie report, which you said had “remarkable longevity” and “ongoing relevance”. Those themes are captured in the chief medical officer’s assessment, too.

We have spoken a lot this morning about reforms to the NHS, but there is a wider palette of reform—perhaps social and even economic—that we might need to look at if we are to see a shift in the provision of health services and how we best improve public health in Scotland.

10:15  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Richard Leonard

I have a few more questions on that, but I am conscious of the time, so I invite James Dornan, who joins us via videolink, to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. That brings to an end this evidence session. Thank you, Auditor General, for your time and input. I also thank Carole Grant, Fiona Diggle and Richard Robinson for their contributions. It has been greatly appreciated and you have set a useful platform for us upon which we may stand and ask some questions of the Scottish Government. Again, thank you very much indeed for your evidence.

I move the meeting into private session.

10:48 Meeting continued in private until 11:14.  

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Richard Leonard

Forgive me, these are matters that we will probably raise with the Scottish Government, but to help us to understand what the answer might be, we have some questions that we are putting to you.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Richard Leonard

Our main item is agenda item 2, which is consideration of the section 23 report “Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”, which has been produced by the Auditor General for Scotland. I am very pleased to welcome our witnesses this morning. We have Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General, who is joined from Audit Scotland by Carole Grant, audit director; Fiona Diggle, audit manager; and Richard Robinson, senior manager.

As usual, Auditor General, we have some questions to put to you, but before we get to those, I invite you to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Richard Leonard

A couple of weeks ago, the committee took evidence on digital exclusion, which you produced a report on several months ago. I would have thought that, if a public body had been asked by the Scottish Government three times to give evidence of the action that it was taking to implement public service reform, it would have at least looked at digitalisation or a change in the way that services are delivered, whether we agree with that or not. I would have thought that that would be an obvious go-to place for lots of the public bodies that were asked for information about what they were doing to reform the services that they provide.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I will press straight on and invite the deputy convener to put some questions to you.