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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 April 2025
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Displaying 3006 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Are you fairly clear which commissions and commissioners you put into each of those two categories? Based on what the commissioners said when we asked them how they define themselves, I am not sure that they are clear themselves.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. My final question is for Ian Elliott. How do you reconcile that kind of fragmentation, differentiation or right to be different with your call for a more “strategic state”?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

That leads us nicely on to Graham Simpson’s areas of questioning, which include budgets and the financial resourcing of additional support for learning, as well as, I am quite sure, some wider questions that he wants to put to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of a briefing prepared by the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission on additional support for learning.

I welcome our witnesses. From Audit Scotland, we are joined by Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland, Alison Cumming, executive director, performance audit and best value, and Yoshiko Gibo, senior auditor. I am pleased to say that we are also joined by a member of the Accounts Commission, Ruth MacLeod.

Before we turn to the questions, Auditor General, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Stuart McMillan will be coming back in a bit later on, but before we leave the areas that he was asking about, I want to go back to a couple of the statistics in the briefing.

We have mentioned the deprivation factor—as you have said, 46 per cent of pupils who require additional support for learning come from the most deprived areas, whereas 27 per cent come from the least deprived areas—but you have also highlighted the difference between boys and girls. I found that very striking when I first read the briefing. You say that boys are 22 per cent more likely to need additional support for learning, are three times more likely than girls to be in the “risk of exclusion” category—I presume that that is for behavioural reasons, although I might be wrong in making that assumption—and are twice as likely as girls to have additional support for learning needs arising from autism.

I know that you are not clinically qualified, Auditor General, but can you speculate, or do you have any evidence, on what might have caused those manifestations?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 10th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. This morning, we have received apologies from the deputy convener, Jamie Greene.

Under agenda item 1, do committee members agree to take items 3 and 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. In your opening statement, you touched on the legislative framework, which the briefing also explores. Twenty years after the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004, we had the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Act 2024, which also has a bearing on the provision of such services. Can you elaborate a bit more on how the legal framework has influenced what has happened over the past two decades?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

The briefing covers the establishment of an ASL project board, which I think brings together the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, presumably to address some of the gaps and deficiencies and to pull things together so that there is not just the confederation of local data inputs that Alison Cumming described but something that has a broad framework that allows for consistency and, therefore, a national perspective on where we need to target resources. Stephen, I will bring you in on that point and we might return to it later.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

During this morning, we might have come up with some extra action points for the ASL project board. We will see whether we have much influence over it.

On that note, I thank you all very much for your evidence. It has been very informative on the back of what is a very clear briefing that sets out the challenges that we face, includes some of the historical perspective and then turns to what we need to do now, with some urgency.

Thank you, Auditor General, for the evidence that you have provided. I also thank Yoshiko Gibo and Alison Cumming from Audit Scotland and Ruth MacLeod from the Accounts Commission for their input. It has been a very useful session for us, and we will need to decide what next steps we might want to take in further pursuit of evidence around the points that you raise in the briefing.

11:10 Meeting continued in private until 11:37.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Richard Leonard

That might be an issue for further inquiry.

I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.