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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 3014 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2022-23

Meeting date: 22 December 2021

Richard Leonard

Yes, it does. That was helpful. I presume that any money that is recovered as a result of the initiative goes back to the bodies that have been defrauded, and not to Audit Scotland.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2022-23

Meeting date: 22 December 2021

Richard Leonard

My point is that although you have to pay a fee to get the data sets, and although you track the fraud, you do not get to recover the fee that you have to pay in the first place.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2022-23

Meeting date: 22 December 2021

Richard Leonard

That would be helpful.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2022-23

Meeting date: 22 December 2021

Richard Leonard

I have just one very quick question. I note that paragraph 68 of the budget proposal document, under the heading “Other administrative costs”, mentions an increase of £220,000

“in respect of the biennial National Fraud Initiative”.

Can Stephen Boyle explain how that figure has been calculated? Is the increase for recruiting additional staff or for bringing in additional services? Moreover, can you explain for our benefit under which of the various budget lines that expense sits in the table in appendix 2 on page 19 of the document?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

Richard Leonard

I thank Roy Brannen, John Kerr and Andrew Scott for giving us their time and for answering our questions on the wide range of topics that are covered in the report.

I now close the public part of the meeting.

10:30 Meeting continued in private until 11:33.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

Richard Leonard

I finish by reflecting on my first question, which was to ask Roy Brannen whether he accepts in full the findings as well as the recommendations of the Audit Scotland report, and I think that he said that he does. However, I want to revisit a couple of points that came up during the evidence this morning. At one point, there was a suggestion that there was a failure of active engagement by the audit and finance committee in the drafting of the 2020-21 budget, but that is not how I read Audit Scotland’s report, which suggests that the audit and finance committee was sidelined and there was minimal involvement of the senior management team, outside of the finance director and the chief executive. That is what led to recommendations of a greater degree of key stakeholder involvement.

The other point that I come back to is the suggestion that some of the blurring of roles and responsibilities was the product of Covid and people stepping into the breach when needed. Paragraph 13 of the Audit Scotland report states that some members of the board

“excessively involved themselves in matters that would typically be the responsibility of the Senior Management Team”,

and says that large amounts of board time were spent

“discussing individual grades that new staff positions should be at within the organisation, including for junior positions.”

The report suggests that those criticisms are not just a function of Covid but predate it. Mr Brennan, can you give us any reflections on those points?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

Richard Leonard

My final question is: could we receive a copy of the final framework document when it is signed off by the cabinet secretary, please?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

Richard Leonard

Good morning, and welcome to the 12th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in this session.

The first item on our agenda is a decision on taking items 3 and 4 in private. If any member objects to taking items 3 and 4 in private, please raise your hand. I see no objections, so I take that as assent. Thank you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

Richard Leonard

The second item on our agenda is further evidence on the Audit Scotland report on the Crofting Commission. I am pleased to welcome our Scottish Government witnesses, who all join us online: Roy Brannen is the interim director general for net zero, Andrew Scott is the director for agriculture and rural economy, and John Kerr is the head of the agricultural policy division.

To get us under way, I invite Mr Brannen to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

Richard Leonard

Did you want to come back in, Mr Brannen?