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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

The Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee’s report shows that the first of the summary of conclusions and recommendations is:

“Transport Scotland and CMAL applied inadequate due diligence in scrutinising and signing off the procurement process”.

Do you accept that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Again, that seems to be rather at odds with the conclusion that was drawn by Audit Scotland that Transport Scotland had some oversight responsibility for the procurement process. Last time, we heard the mantra from Mr Brannen that it was all about buyer and builder, but this is public money. As an accountable officer, do you not have some accountability for how that money is spent?

09:30  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

I will put to you a final point, which relates to whether the First Minister was involved, whether through a special adviser or directly or indirectly. In his evidence last time, Mr Brannen was quite clear—it is a pity that he is not here today—that there was no involvement whatsoever of the First Minister, and we accept him at his word. If that is the case, will you give us your understanding of why, when the First Minister was questioned on 29 March by Glenn Campbell of the BBC about whether it was on her say so, and he asked her,

“Did you say ‘go ahead’?”,

her reply was,

“I didn’t say don’t go ahead”?

Why would she not just give an unequivocal Roy Brannen answer and say, “No, I was not involved”?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

I thank Willie Coffey for his questions. I turn to Craig Hoy, who will pick up on the same theme, so Mo Rooney might be able to come in in response to his questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of final questions before the evidence session ends, which go back to our previous evidence session with Transport Scotland. I think that Fran Pacitti addressed the issue at the time, and I am interested in hearing Hugh Gillies’s view. We were told that all port, harbour and ferry infrastructure projects now go through the investment decision-making board at Transport Scotland. Back in 2015, what was the value threshold that meant that the two vessels did not go through that process?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Do you expect that he was talking about financial issues, procurement issues, things that might have been subject to challenge or political issues? What do you think?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey, as I mentioned at the start of the meeting, joins us via videolink. He has a number of questions on nationalisation.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Mr Cook. I am conscious of the fact that Mr Gillies is an accountable officer. It might be that we will go directly to Mr Gillies on some of our areas of questioning.

First of all, I invite the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Special adviser to whom? Mr Rhatigan, do you know the answer to that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.

I turn to 31 August, which was the day when the First Minister went to the Ferguson Marine shipyard to announce that Ferguson’s was the preferred bidder. We have discovered that the negotiations had not been concluded at that point, and the bone of contention—the builder’s refund guarantee—was still under active negotiation. We later see CMAL’s view of what that meant and the risks that it thought it involved.

Do you think that making a high-profile announcement at the shipyard would have prejudiced the negotiating position?