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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 23 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 4 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. Well—

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 4 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. However, we got that letter only because it was provided to us by Stuart McMillan.

I will ask another question on the issue of transparency. When we took evidence from Audit Scotland back in April, Gill Miller said:

“We asked Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government for all documentation relating to the minister’s decision, but we did not receive any.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 21 April 2022; c 28.]

Is that in keeping with the standard that you set out in the foreword to the ministerial code?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 4 November 2022

Richard Leonard

I appreciate your undertaking to listen to any requests that we have for further information to be put in the public domain.

You mentioned the missing documents and so on. However, the position of Audit Scotland remains clear. It says that the email that was unearthed that covers the exchanges on 8 and 9 October 2015 confirms that ministers approved the award of the FMEL contract. Audit Scotland’s position is that

“there remains insufficient documentary evidence to explain why the decision was made to proceed with the contract, given the significant risks and concerns raised by CMAL.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 4 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. The committee will consider its next steps after today.

I will move on to something else. Another response that we received recently—in fact, just last week, so it therefore arrived a week late—was from Transport Scotland. In the covering letter, Michelle Quinn, the chief executive officer of Transport Scotland, said that the organisation has a “commitment to absolute transparency”.

However, the correspondence that Transport Scotland shared with us was an incomplete, censored version of Derek Mackay’s letter of 2 February 2015 to Stuart McMillan. It was not even redacted; it was cut. Was that done to mislead? I do not know. Do you think that that is an acceptable way for a Government organisation to act?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 3 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the 25th meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee.

Under agenda item 1, do members agree to take item 2 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

09:01 Meeting continued in private until 09:30.  

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I want to give Willie Coffey the opportunity to put his questions to the witnesses now. I will then bring in Colin Beattie.

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks. That would be helpful.

I move on to another area. A couple of minutes ago, Mr Johnston, you said that fewer people are carrying out the role and that it is about how that workload is managed. However, at the same time, new public bodies are being created.

I am interested in the railways, for example—I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. As I understand it, under the structure from 1 April this year, Scottish ministers act through Transport Scotland, which has oversight of Scottish Rail Holdings, which in turn has oversight of ScotRail Trains Limited, and—who knows?—after this weekend, maybe the Caledonian sleeper will be added to that list. How does that relationship work in practice? I know that it is not within your directorate, but I want to understand how the sponsor arrangement operates when a new public body is created.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

We are living in times that are quite different even from those in 2017, when the legislation was drafted.

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

In our first evidence session this morning, we will consider “Progress Review of Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies”. I am pleased to welcome the Scottish Government witnesses in the committee room. Paul Johnston is director general communities; Mary McAllan is director of Covid recovery and public service reform; and Catriona Maclean is deputy director public bodies support unit.

Colin Beattie, who is the fifth member of the committee, is joining us remotely. I will bring him in shortly.

I invite the director general to make an opening statement, after which we will have questions. We have copies of the review report that was produced for you and your response to the recommendations in it.

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Finally, we turn to questions from the committee’s deputy convener, Sharon Dowey.