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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed.

10:55 Meeting continued in private until 11:33.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Yes.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

We are rapidly running out of time, but I know that there are substantive questions that Craig Hoy and Colin Beattie want to ask. I turn first to Colin Beattie.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. You are right to say that we will return to the themes that you outlined in your opening statement in the next hour or so, so thank you very much for that.

You will be aware that the Scottish Government has released a large number of emails that give us some sense of things that were going on from 2015 onwards. Can I take you back to August 2015? We have published correspondence from Transport Scotland to Keith Brown, who was the Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities at the time. On 20 August 2015, correspondence seeks his approval for Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd to award FMEL shipbuilding contracts of a total cost of £96 million—I think that it went up to £97 million in the next few days—for two new major ferries. Towards the end of that correspondence, reference is made to the potential for a legal challenge from one of the unsuccessful shipyards. The correspondence goes on to state that CMAL was confident that it could defend any challenges in those circumstances, but it also uses the interesting phrase:

“that said, the relationship between Scottish ministers and Ferguson’s owner is well known”.

For the benefit of the committee, can you define the terms of that relationship at that time?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

To go back to the point about the legal letter, the committee was told in evidence last week by Chris Wilcock, who is head of the ferries unit at Transport Scotland, that his understanding from the chief executive officer of CMAL was that no such threat existed. We will get CMAL in in a fortnight’s time, so we will put some of those questions to it then.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

—on 5 June 2018 or that it was a three-year-old legal letter?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

We work on the basis that people before us are telling the truth.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Who was? Derek Mackay?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Do you think that you had preferential access to ministers?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 18th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2022. Under item 1, does the committee agree to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.