Seòmar agus comataidhean

Thank you, Mr Griffin. Feel free to bring in the other witnesses alongside you, if you think that they could helpfully illuminate some of those points further.

You spoke of totals. I am not in a position to dispute the figures that you presented to us, which we will look at in a bit more detail, but there is an emphasis in the Audit Scotland briefing on the proportions. It is a stated aim of public policy to change the balance between custodial and non-custodial sentences. However, over the past three years, the proportion of non-custodial sentences went from 59 per cent to 56 per cent, then back up to 59 per cent. That does not show a clear line of progress to the public or members of this committee; rather, it looks as though there has been one step forward, one step back, then one step forward again. Will you reflect on the proportions as well as the totals?

I want to bring us back to the nitty-gritty of the Audit Scotland briefing, on which Sharon Dowey has a series of questions.

So, you dispute the conclusion that there is

“a fairly static level of progress”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 30 September 2021; c 37.]

or no progress at all. In your eyes, we are making progress in shifting the balance from custodial to non-custodial sentencing. Is that right?

You understand, Mr Griffin, that the committee has a healthy appetite for data.

Thank you, Mr Rennick. That was a very helpful and instructive answer, although it provokes a final question.

Everyone talks about the logjam in the criminal justice system because of Covid, during which the courts have operated on a very different basis. Mr Griffin, can you tell us about the department’s view of how the backlog will be managed? “Opportunities” might not be the right word, but does the current situation give you a junction in time to drive what happens in a slightly different way?

Thank you for ending on that very positive note.

I thank Mr Griffin, Mr Rennick and Ms Dalrymple for joining us. We appreciate your input, your candour and your vitality, at times, in responding to the questioning. Thank you very much for your time and your evidence.

I look forward to seeing Mr Griffin again soon, perhaps.

I suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

The committee will reflect on the answers to our questions on the health inequalities impact assessment data and the fact that it has not been published. We will deliberate on whether we can make an intervention on that.

The final area that I want to ask about and which falls within your domain relates to planning and budgeting. How do you plan and budget in a situation in which a third party—essentially the JCVI—is deciding who the priority groups are, and the chronology of who should receive boosters and further access to vaccination programmes? Do you have any reflections on how well the Scottish Government, health boards and so on have responded so far in that environment? What will the future look like and what difficulties and challenges are posed to those who have to budget for and plan those vital services?

Thank you. The committee will look forward to receiving the outcome of that work, so I am sure that we will have more evidence-taking sessions on it in the months ahead.

I thank the Auditor General and his colleagues very much for coming along and taking part in this morning’s very helpful session.

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the seventh meeting in this parliamentary session of the Public Audit Committee. I remind members and guests that the Parliament’s rules on social distancing should be observed, and it would be greatly appreciated if you could wear a face covering when moving around, entering or leaving the room.

The first item on our agenda is to invite members to decide whether to take items 4 and 5 in private. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.