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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 3014 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Drug and alcohol services: An update”

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

The next item on our agenda is consideration of Audit Scotland’s recent briefing on drug and alcohol services, which is an update report on some work that Audit Scotland has looked at over a decade or more.

We are joined in the committee room by Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland, and, from Audit Scotland, Antony Clark, interim director of performance audit and best value, and Jillian Matthew, senior manager, performance audit and best value.

I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Major Information and Communications Technology Projects (Accountability and Governance)

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

We may have a session in the future when we drill a bit more deeply into some of the individual ICT projects.

I will now hand over to Colin Beattie, who has a number of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Drug and alcohol services: An update”

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I have to say that we are quite concerned about data gaps.

Colin Beattie has a number of questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. We will return to some of those issues later.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Before we leave that point, Catherine Topley was asked by Colin Beattie about the support that Scottish Canals had had from Transport Scotland, but I would like to ask Hugh Gillies about the degree to which he feels any responsibility for the situation.

The Audit Scotland report is fairly strong. Paragraph 4 says that there were fundamental problems with the qualifications of the person who carried out the valuation of assets. Paragraph 18 talks about the classification of revenue spend as capital spend. Those sound like technical matters, but they are fairly fundamental failings in the approach to the accounts—to such an extent that Audit Scotland issued that rare thing: a disclaimer.

Recently, we heard from the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, which had a disclaimer because of a cyberattack, in which virtually all of its data was wiped out. Scottish Canals has had a disclaimer. Hugh Gillies, how do you reflect on the situation that has occurred? What lessons are you learning as a result?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

That is helpful, but I do not read the report as simply being about a narrow technical issue that has led to a snag. For example, one of the critiques in the report is that the people who were appointed to carry out the asset valuation did not appear to be qualified to do so. How on earth could that happen?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Item 2 is consideration of a section 22 report on Scottish canals that was published by the Auditor General earlier this year. I welcome our witnesses. From Scottish Canals, we have Catherine Topley, who is the chief executive; Andrew Thin, who is the chair of the board; and Sarah Jane Hannah, who is the director of finance and business services. We also have a team from Transport Scotland, which is led by Hugh Gillies, who is the interim chief executive. We are also joined by Fran Pacitti, who is the director of aviation, maritime, freight and—this fits in with the purpose of this morning’s item—canals; and Lee Shedden, who is the financial controller.

I invite Catherine Topley to make a short opening statement, which will be followed by a series of questions from committee members.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey has a question in the same area.

09:30  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks. I ask Willie Coffey to come in with a number of questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Fran Pacitti, I do not want to put the blame on your shoulders at all, but I observe that your job title is director of aviation, maritime, freight and canals, which gives a flavour of the scope of the areas in which Transport Scotland is involved. I presume that, in those sectors, there are engineering-related assets as well as land and natural assets, so did you not have expertise that you could have brought to bear in order to give advice to Scottish Canals about carrying out the work?