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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 3682 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Before we leave this area, I go back to Vicki Nairn. You may have seen the submission that we received from the EIS Further Education Lecturers Association dated 15 December. This goes back to the point about what UHI was doing at that point in the history of UHI Perth when budgets were not being set, things were being allowed to drift and there were splits in the board about whether the budget should be set. The EIS-FELA submission talks of the “Inaction” and “lack of action” of the UHI court/regional strategic body. The letter names you, Vicki Nairn. How do you respond to that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Okay—thank you.

Finally, I return to Catherine Etri and Lynn Murray. Again, following the evidence that we took in December, we got a note from Iain Wishart. He wrote to us in what I thought was quite an extraordinary way. He had a section in his letter where he posed the question,

“How Useful is a Budget?”

He gave a three-point list of reasons, from A to C, why it is not especially useful to set a budget. He said:

“While I fully support doing budgets, they are only one tool within financial planning and do have weaknesses”.

I suppose that I am asking you the question, Lynn Murray, as his successor: do you agree with that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Do you accept what the Auditor General told us when he gave evidence in October? He was quite stark. He said:

“I ... cannot recall, from my time in this role and during my career of auditing public bodies in Scotland, an organisation that has not prepared an annual budget.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 8 October 2025; c 5.]

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Okay, I will come back to that in a moment. Vicki Nairn, as the principal and vice-chancellor of UHI, do you accept the findings of the Audit Scotland report?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Okay, I will look a little bit more closely, not just at what happened, but at the approach that led to the section 22 report.

You might have seen that, before Christmas, we took evidence from the former chair of the board, Graham Watson, and from Iain Wishart, who was former vice-principal of operations at UHI Perth. As a follow-up to their oral evidence, they wrote to us giving further testimony of how things got to where they did. Mr Watson said in his 4 December letter to me, as the convener of this committee, that

“In the Board’s view, it would have been neither prudent nor good governance practice to agree a deficit budget when there was no certainty of how the deficit would be funded”.

As a result, no budget was agreed. Lynn Murray or Catherine Etri, does either of you want to comment on that?

09:45  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the first meeting in 2026 of the Public Audit Committee.

Item 1 is for the committee to decide whether to take items 4, 5, 6 and 7 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Item 2 is further consideration of the 2023-24 audit of UHI Perth. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses. Partly because of the weather, some are joining us online. I begin by welcoming Catherine Etri, who is the interim principal and chief executive of UHI Perth. Alistair Wylie is the interim chair of UHI Perth and he is joining us online. You are very welcome and I thank you for taking the trouble to come along today. We are also joined in the meeting room by Lynn Murray, who is the depute principal (operations) at UHI Perth.

Joining us online for obvious weather reasons is Vicki Nairn, who is the principal and vice chancellor of the University of the Highlands and Islands. Good morning, and thanks for being with us. Vicki is joined by Mike Baxter, who is the chief financial officer at UHI. Welcome to you.

Alistair, Vicki and Mike, if there are any points that you want to come in on particularly, put in the chat that you want to join us and we will do our level best to pick that up and invite you in.

I will complete our welcome to witnesses by welcoming Jacqui Brasted, who is the director of access, learning and outcomes at the Scottish Funding Council. Alongside Jacqui is Tiffany Ritchie, who is the acting director of finance at the Scottish Funding Council.

Please do not feel that you have to answer every single question that we raise. We will try to manage proceedings as effectively as possible. As you would expect, we have got some questions to put to you but, before I get to those questions, I invite Catherine Etri, Vicki Nairn and Jacqui Brasted to give us short opening statements, in that order. I invite Catherine to open proceedings for us.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Turning to Catherine Etri, as the accountable officer, do you agree with Tiffany Ritchie’s point that it is a fundamental part of the Scottish public finance manual that a public sector organisation sets a budget?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

Okay—thank you very much.

I am going to move things along now and invite Joe FitzPatrick to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Richard Leonard

That is out at midnight tonight, Auditor General, is it not?