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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 February 2026
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Displaying 3801 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Finally, I turn to the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, who has some questions for you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

That makes sense.

I go back to my original question. All of this stems from the McCloud judgment, which was a court case in which the UK Government was challenged under age discrimination laws. My question was whether the Scottish Public Pensions Agency could be sued by people in the small claims court or another arena because it has failed to meet its legal responsibilities to make those assessments and then to give people any back pension pay that they are due.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. I begin by asking you whether you accept in full the key messages, findings and recommendations of these reports.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

No—I recognise that it was a wide-ranging question, and well done for remembering all of those different headings that I put to you.

I have just a couple of other questions that I want to raise with you. I suppose that one of my overall points is that we have integration authorities and integration joint boards, and you are the director general of health and social care, but we are still having all these issues with delayed discharge. That is about whether we have a joined-up social care and health system, is it not? Does this report not suggest that that is not working? The integration is not working, and the plan that we have had for the past 10 years has not delivered what it was supposed to deliver.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

You have mentioned a whole-system approach a couple of times. In the report, exhibit 3 sets out the areas where there are contributory factors to this systematic failure. It talks about “financial pressures” but also makes the observation—it is the Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland making this observation—that “governance is complicated”, and that, while we have “an ageing population”, there

“is a lack of planning for the future housing needs of an ageing population”.

The report also highlights something that we have discussed repeatedly over the past few years, which is our workforce shortages, not just in the national health service but in social care in particular. Could you explain to us how you are addressing each of those challenge areas that are identified in the report?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

It might be a Scottish Government issue as well, of course.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I am going to move us on and invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Delayed discharges: A symptom of the challenges facing health and social care” and “Community health and social care: Performance 2025”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that and for the evidence that you have given us this morning. Caroline Lamb and Derek Grieve, I thank you very much indeed for your time. I do not know about your diary, director general, but the committee has you booked to come back and see us in a couple of weeks’ time, in our final meeting of the parliamentary session. We look forward to that. If you want to follow up anything in writing, following this morning’s session, please do that. We would welcome anything that you wished to share with us.

I now suspend the meeting for a changeover in witnesses.

11:04

Meeting suspended.

11:09

On resuming—

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

That is interesting. I think we are going to get the accountable officer from the agency in to see us in a couple of weeks’ time and can put some of these things to him.

You said in your opening statement that the Scottish Public Pensions Agency has a legal responsibility, which begs a question. Are there any financial consequences for the agency if the remedy is not addressed properly and on time?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”

Meeting date: 18 February 2026

Richard Leonard

I welcome everyone back. We have had a changeover of witnesses, and I am now very pleased to welcome to the committee the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, to aid us in our consideration of the section 22 report that was recently published on the audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency for the financial year 2024-25. Alongside the Auditor General are Michael Oliphant, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland, and Stuart Nugent, who is a senior audit manager at Audit Scotland. Auditor General, I invite you to begin the evidence session with a short opening statement, after which we will put questions to you, Michael and Stuart.