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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 October 2025
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Displaying 3443 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

But, as I understand it, the exodus of staff—or the big turnover of staff—happened this year, in 2025, did it not? The report is on the financial year 2023-24, when there was the complete absence of any budget.

Auditor General, you are presenting this report to Parliament because you have serious concerns about what happened. I suppose that the question is why those serious concerns were not picked up at an earlier point by either UHI or the Scottish Funding Council.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. I am going to move things along and invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

I read a report that suggested that, under the principal and CEO who has now left but who held that position at the time of the audit, there were five different finance directors, which again is an interesting indication of the instability of that function inside the college.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. We have come to the end of our time on this report. I thank Mark MacPherson, Nicola Wright and the Auditor General for presenting their evidence. The committee will need to consider what our next steps are. We are about to keep two of you, but lose Ms Wright, as we change over witnesses. To allow us to change witnesses, I briefly suspend the meeting.

11:16 Meeting suspended.  

11:19 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Graham Simpson has indicated that he does not have any questions. Colin Beattie, do you have any questions?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. I take you back to your second last point about the role of UHI, which is the regional strategic body that has some kind of oversight of the college, and the role of the Scottish Funding Council. What part do they play in oversight and governance of a college such as UHI Perth?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

One of the fundamental questions that the committee has for you is whether you can think of many other circumstances where a public body has not set a budget. Similarly, and related to that, you make the point in the report that the internal audit function could not be relied upon at all. You could not set any store by or place any credence in the internal audit function. Again, I cannot remember reading a report where that has been highlighted in such a way.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

I think that we have some further questions on that area later, but I will now invite Colin Beattie to ask some questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

I am conscious that two members of the committee still have questions to ask, so, if we could press on, that would be helpful. Deputy convener, over to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Richard Leonard

My understanding is that the OBR forecasts, which are built into the Scottish Fiscal Commission forecasts, relate to the situation before the reforms were shelved. There was a revolt against the proposed reforms to PIP, which led to the brake being put on and Stephen Timms being appointed to head up a review. For the next year or so, there will not, as I understand it, be reforms to PIP. There will need to be a revision, so Joe FitzPatrick is right—the £770 million is based on the world as it looked like it was going to be, not the world as it currently is.

I will bring Joe FitzPatrick back in a bit later, but I will now invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.