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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 March 2026
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Displaying 3876 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

What is the point of a support and intervention framework and the Scottish Government supporting and intervening if that makes no difference to a health board’s performance or financial position? Is not the purpose of escalation to bring about an improvement in performance and financial management?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

Can I take you to the other side of the argument? A number of health boards have never gone into financial deficit and have never needed to be escalated. They might not have met all the performance targets but, nonetheless, they have not found themselves requiring brokerage or financial bailouts or loans. What do you say to them?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

I suppose that that begs a question about why it is necessary to rely on unannounced inspections by Healthcare Improvement Scotland to bring about the necessary changes, interventions and supports. Should we not have a better system of communication that lets you understand what is going on out there? Such a system could, for example, let you know that there are regularly six beds in a four-bed ward, or whatever the issues are. We heard about the issues at Dr Gray’s hospital, for example, that came up in the NHS Grampian escalation. Do you need to wait until there is a swoop by the HIS team to understand that activities are not being conducted to a level that we would expect and that there are public health issues in relation to how patients are being treated?

09:45

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

Good. Thank you very much. I now invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I turn to Joe FitzPatrick, who has some more questions for you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

Okay—that is fine, Joe. In that case, I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

I see your frustration, Mr Simpson. I want to follow up on some of Mr Simpson’s questions. Lanarkshire has been mentioned, and we have been talking about prescription drugs. There is a shortage of co-codamol at the moment, is there not? People are unable to get it prescribed through their GPs—certainly, people in Lanarkshire have been coming to me to say that. Do you know what the latest position is, how long it is likely to last and what the alternative solutions are?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

Our principal agenda item is further consideration of the Auditor General’s report, “NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”, which is an annual audit report. We are pleased to welcome, to give evidence on the report, Caroline Lamb, accountable officer for the national health service and director general for health and social care; Fiona Bennett, chief finance officer, Scottish Government health and social care directorate; and Christine McLaughlin, chief operating officer and deputy chief executive, NHS Scotland.

We have quite a number of questions to put to you on the report. Before we get to those, I invite Caroline Lamb to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

I want to ask about an item that you touched on towards the end of your opening statement: the support and intervention framework that you operate. You are right that we had NHS Grampian and NHS Ayrshire and Arran before us, because they were both the subject of section 22 reports. Section 22 reports are produced when things are not going terribly well.

One thing that stood out to us was that NHS Ayrshire and Arran, for example, has been in deficit for, I think, seven years and has been at a high level of escalation for a long time. Our working assumption would be that, if a board is escalated, that is in order for it to be turned around and de-escalated. Some of us have experience with boards where that has happened—it happened with NHS Forth Valley, for example. Why has NHS Ayrshire and Arran been allowed to sit at a high level of escalation for as long as seven years?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 4 March 2026

Richard Leonard

But it has not happened in this case, has it?