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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 April 2025
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Displaying 3006 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

You have already been quite critical of the level of evaluation that has been undertaken. On equality impact assessments, one of the report’s themes is the possibility of an unequal impact, including of some of the demand management measures, which we will come to later in the meeting. Do you have a sense of whether full equality impact assessments are being done of the current transport system or of proposals for modal shift, for example? Is that part and parcel of the approach being taken by Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

On that point of controversy—given that lots of disabled groups are very upset about the reduction in station ticket office opening hours—we will bring this morning’s evidence session to a close.

I thank our guests this morning: Malcolm Bell, from the Accounts Commission; Ashleigh Madjitey from the Audit Scotland office; and Cornilius Chikwama, also from Audit Scotland. In particular, I thank you, Auditor General, for your patience with some of our questions and the fullness of your responses. You have undertaken to give us a bit more information and granular detail about what makes up so-called “internationally defined domestic transport”. We look forward to seeing that and poring over in the next few weeks. Thank you very much indeed.

11:35 Meeting continued in private until 11:54.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Many questions arise from that, but I want to move the discussion on to a related subject. I presume that, when a target such as the proposed 20 per cent reduction in car kilometres by 2030, relative to the 2019 baseline, is announced, we would expect there to be a cross-Government drive on that. What you have described does not appear to be even a cross-transport drive. Have you seen cross-Government working to meet the target that was set, which was a clear and important signal of public policy?

09:45  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

You are not here to speak on behalf of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, but the report mentions that a joint governance group was supposed to be established—involving, I presume, local authority leaders and agencies and central Government leaders and agencies. Has that governance group been constituted yet?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

That is helpful. Auditor General, you have again mentioned a lack of leadership. At what level is there a lack of leadership?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

That is an overarching target, but below that there are examples of other things that have been discontinued, dropped and so on.

I will ask a final question before I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you. How a Government with a £50 billion to £60 billion budget reconciles competing priorities has been the subject of debate and discussion at this committee before. For example, the expenditure on rail is going down but the expenditure on trunk roads is going up. If we have a target for reducing car kilometres that is to be met, how does all of that get reconciled—or does it?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

I am conscious of the time and the need to get in two more groups of questions, but the deputy convener has some questions on the theme that we have been discussing.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the seventh meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.

Item 1 is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Do we agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Item 2 is consideration of the joint report by the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission, “Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”.

I am pleased to welcome our witnesses: Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General, who is joined by Cornilius Chikwama, audit director, and Ashleigh Madjitey, audit manager, Audit Scotland. I am pleased to say that we are also joined by Malcolm Bell, who is representing the Accounts Commission. You are welcome to the committee, Mr Bell.

We have some questions to put to you on the report, Auditor General, but before we turn to them, I invite you to make an opening statement.