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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 3584 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I suppose that that is a possibility. Again, I will defer to the lawyers to give me the lowdown on what that could mean, because I do not know how I can answer that without legal advice.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

We are exploring all options. I will not alight on one in particular. We are exploring a range of options and my officials have been working hard to try to get an agreement that we could be satisfied with. Obviously, having concurrent powers is an option. If I can put it this way, we are looking at any potential protections to ensure that devolution is properly respected in the bill.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

We are negotiating sufficient protections. A number of protections are on the table, which means that they are matters of discussion between me and the UK Government minister right now. I said that I would try my best to let the committee know the outcome of those negotiations, so that you will have notice of what we have agreed to. However, while those negotiations are on-going, you will have to forgive me if I do not run through a list of potential protections that we would or would not seek to have in the bill, because those are still being negotiated. I hope that you will respect that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I understand that, convener. You say that it is difficult for you to do your job, but I would not be doing my job if I did not ensure that we protect devolution in absolutely everything that comes across my desk from the UK Government.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

You are creating potential scenarios in which the UK Government acts in an area of devolved competence and you are asking how we would interact with that. That is why it is important that we have the consent mechanism. I cannot possibly answer that question at the moment, but Joanna Dingwall might be able to help. Maybe I do not understand your question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Clauses 2 to 10 are the ones with which we have issues.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I am just double checking that I have got that right. It is part 2, clauses 2 to 10.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

A general point is that, because we cannot foresee what might happen if we did not have consent, or if we were not even merely consulted—again, I think that “consult” is a very woolly term, and we not should sign up to being consulted; we should have consent—we could not, case by case, figure out the consequences that might arise in whatever scenario there was. Without having consent, Parliament would not have the ability to scrutinise the consequences of a decision that was being made in which we were not included.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

At present, clause 9 provides the power for the secretary of state to make regulations in relation to genetic resources, including benefit sharing, enforcement and conflict avoidance. That may apply to devolved matters, and there is currently no requirement in the bill to secure the consent of Scottish ministers for the secretary of state to act in those areas that are within devolved competence.

The fix would be to put in the bill a provision that the secretary of state would seek the consent of the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament. I have had a meeting with the UK minister to outline why that is so important.

Will that impact on a lot of our activities? No, but the fundamental bedrock is to ensure that the UK Government does not act in a way that overrides devolved competence, so that is what we are seeking.

My Scottish Government legal colleague has asked to come in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

That is true. We are not a signatory because we are not a nation state. We support the aims of the BBNJ agreement and are working hard with the UK Government to support ratification, but your fundamental point is absolutely correct. I was not at the negotiations on the BBNJ. We do not have a seat at the table of the conference of the parties. We rely on the UK Government to give us information about how it is negotiating and what is it is negotiating about.

We have no issues with the BBNJ agreement, but we have to make sure that, when it is enacted by the UK Government, we have consent in relation to the devolved areas in which we have an interest. That is the least that we should expect.