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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 3584 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

We are trying to negotiate. As I said, we want to be able to tell the committee that we have been successful in our negotiations and that we have come to conclusions with which we are satisfied, in the same way that we were with the amendment to clause 18 that was tabled at the House of Lords bill committee yesterday. We are happy with that amendment, which related to environmental impact assessment obligations. It can be done, therefore, and we are hopeful that it will be done.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I suppose that the provision of area-based management tools, such as MPAs, would be a component of that. That is why it is so important that we have consent.

I do not know whether I can answer the question about HPMAs, but, as Douglas Lumsden has pointed out, fisheries management tools are the domain of the Scottish Government and it is for the Scottish Parliament to scrutinise what is happening in that area. I do not think that that potential scenario is likely to happen.

In effect, marine protection is a power that sits with the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government, so we would not want to see a UK Government minister having powers over marine protection.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I will have to turn to the lawyer for that, if that is okay.

09:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

That discussion might more be one to have with the UK Government, but Scottish institutions are included in the explanatory notes for the bill. As the guidance is developed after the bill is passed, we want to ensure that the Scottish Government has engagement with all stakeholders that might be affected. The UK Government is running a public consultation, which was published on 21 November and which closes on 19 December, on the implementation of part 4 of the BBNJ agreement, as it relates to licensable marine activities. We were involved in what the consultation looked like, so it is a joint consultation. For information, I say to anyone who is watching this evidence session and is concerned about licensable marine activities that they have until 19 December to put their points. However, once the bill is enacted and we have a better understanding of where we have got to on consent, we will want to ensure that all our Scottish stakeholders have the opportunity to be involved in the guidance that we put together.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

A requirement to be consulted is not worth pursuing, because what does that mean in practice? We could just be told what is happening quite quickly before something is agreed, or whatever. With the BBNJ bill, you can see how late it was when we were able to find out that devolved competences were being looked at.

It comes back to the fundamental point that, in the future, in areas known and unknown, a secretary of state could in effect leapfrog the Scottish Parliament. Well, they would not be leapfrogging the Scottish Parliament because, if we consent to the bill as is, that would be perfectly legitimate. However, we cannot consent to the bill as it is. We need consent so that we have the protection of devolved competence and we cannot be leapfrogged in future situations.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

With regard to the previous question about who would enact everything associated with the BBNJ, it is the UK Government. We would scrutinise the devolved areas on which it impinged, and Parliament would scrutinise that as part of having a consent mechanism embedded in the bill. I cannot pick out a potential scenario and predict what would happen and how the UK Government would respond to it. It is an impossible question to answer.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

At the moment, we cannot agree to part 2, because the schedule will impose obligations relating to the collection and utilisation of MGR and associated DSI from a BBNJ. That includes—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

In reality, most of the actions that are associated with the bill will be exercised by UK Government ministers. We do not have any problem with that. It is just a case of them having our consent to do so. In emergency situations, such as conflict between marine craft, the UK Government has responsibility.

The consent of Scottish ministers is the issue here, not the deployment or the response.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Subject to negotiation.