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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 December 2025
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Displaying 3581 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I hope that it will be extremely rare.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Bear in mind that, at the moment, we are simply airing the idea. We have not decided what our approach will be.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

No. I think that vicarious liability is important, for the reasons that I set out to Sarah Boyack, so there must be provision to ensure that the scenario that you have just outlined, where, in effect, you have a fall guy, cannot happen. It cannot be the case that a junior member of an organisation would be prosecuted for something that was actually the intent of the organisation, so there must be vicarious liability provision.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I think that you would have to prove that that company went rogue, so to speak, which I suppose is what you are describing. You would have to prove that a contractor was doing that off its own bat, without the instruction of the contracting company. Who is responsible for the offence needs to be provable.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, that would be the case if a contractor came in and cut corners without the express direction or knowledge of the contracting organisation. In that case, it would not just be ecocide that it was taken to court for; it would properly also be taken to court by the company that contracted it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

If I may just give a personal opinion, if anyone did not come to work in Scotland because we had an offence of ecocide, what would that say about the company? We want all companies to act responsibly. If environmental law exists to prevent serious harm to the environment, whether under the 2014 act or an ecocide act, what would it say about a company that it would not come to do business somewhere because of that law?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

There would be such a high bar. The big debate that we are having is whether the bill’s provisions are sufficiently additional to those that already exist in Scotland. I would be very wary of a company that said that it would not work in Scotland because we had an ecocide law.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Section 2(3) departs from the common position and effectively reverses the burden of proof by placing the burden of proving the defence of necessity on an accused person. Careful consideration must be given to whether that reversed burden is compatible with the ECHR article 6 right. We do not think that it is and that is a flaw in the bill.

Under article 6 of the ECHR, to be “presumed innocent” is an aspect of a person’s right to a fair trial. Section 2(3) reverses that, which we feel quite strongly about. Should the bill reach stage 2, we will look to change that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, you are absolutely right, Mr Stewart. Even ahead of the submissions by local authorities and permitting authorities, I favoured an amendment to introduce a defence of acting under permit or other authorisation, as exists in relation to the offence that is set out in section 40 of the 2014 act. It would make the bill and the 2014 act compatible, and it would provide that defence.

You are right that NFU Scotland, the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and a lot of local authorities have mentioned it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

It is important that we recognise that a defence of carrying out a permitted activity is not a licence to commit ecocide. However, acting outwith the terms of the authority could expose someone to prosecution for ecocide.

If the activity is permitted, there are already provisions in the application for the permit and in the decision to give the permit that a person must meet. If someone acts outwith the permit, they are acting outwith the permit. They could be wilfully committing severe environmental damage.