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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 2867 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

Maybe I can ask Mr Sweeney my final question. On the whole, is childminding a more expensive thing to do? I am assuming that there are more adults per child or fewer children per adult. Is that how it works?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

You are not sure whether that point was raised in 2013.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

One of the points that Audit Scotland made was about how the outcome of family wellbeing would be measured. In the questioning so far, the committee has largely focused on the costs, the inputs and some of the outputs, but we are also meant to be looking at the bigger outcomes. Do you have any thoughts on that? Is family wellbeing measured? Can it be measured?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

I want to take a step back. One of the reasons for the committee’s scrutiny is to see whether we can improve our system for dealing with a financial memorandum when we look at a bill. There was a particular challenge with the financial memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill because the costs were quite large. What tends to happen is that, when COSLA or the local authorities implement something like this, they suggest that it will cost a lot more and the Government suggests that it will cost a lot less, and we are left somewhere in the middle.

As a former councillor, when the smoking ban came in, I thought that considerable costs would be incurred, because council staff would have to go round all the pubs and restaurants, whereas, in fact, the ban turned out to be quite self-policing, which was good.

We originally thought that the number of kids in this age group would be 225,000, but the projection reduced to 206,000 and then to 184,000. That is quite a dramatic fall of some 40,000 children. Can we do things better at the financial memorandum stage or do we just have to accept that it will always be a rough guess?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

It is sometimes thought that we are not comparing like with like when it comes to the costs because, to a large extent, private or third sector providers and childminders have to meet their capital costs themselves, whereas councils can hide the capital costs. We get that with care homes and all sorts of things. Again, is that a bit unfair?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

The adult to child ratio is much the same, is it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

I realise that it is nine years since the legislation was put in place. Mr McAlister has already told us he has been in post for only two years; I am not sure how long the other witnesses have been in post. Is it your understanding that your organisation, or at least the sector, was well consulted when the legislation went through? The committee is looking at how the finances were worked out at the time and whether we could do that better. Were you folk involved? I put that to Mr McAlister.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

That would have been my next question.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

There could be a 5 per cent administration or management charge for all the extra work in the evenings. Would you be looking for that kind of thing?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

John Mason

I will try the other two witnesses. Is childminding inherently more expensive?