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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 January 2026
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Displaying 3406 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

Mr Moxham, you said earlier on that you favour reform being at a more local level. If I understood you correctly, I tend to agree with that. However, it has been suggested to us that there is sometimes a need for a central drive. For example, the police and fire services would never have reorganised in the way that they did—for good or bad—if it had not been for a central drive. How much should we leave public sector reform to the individual organisations, and how much should Government or the Parliament drive it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

It has been suggested to us that there are too many public bodies. Perhaps several overlap with each other in what they do.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

I appreciate your comments. That is something that we are currently looking at. I realise that you did not anticipate the question, so asking it was maybe a little unfair.

It is clear that one of the roles that you and your colleagues have is to defend existing jobs. However, in looking at reform, I suppose that I would like to see more workers on the front line and fewer sitting behind desks. Are you open to that kind of movement?

11:30  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

Minister, you have used term “underdeveloped” a number of times, and it is used in the schedule, the policy note and so on. Can you clarify what “underdeveloped” means? Presumably, if there is a one-storey building on a site and it is knocked down and a five-storey building is put in, that is developing the site. Therefore, is every site “underdeveloped”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

Sorry?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

Okay, thank you. I think I understand that. The schedule also includes the idea of “Partial relief”. Is that tied into the same thinking?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

That is helpful—thank you. Minister, I think that the Scottish Fiscal Commission has said that the cost is under £5 million and so it is not taking a view, because it does not consider that amount to be material. That is still a chunk of money, however. Do we have an figure on the actual cost?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

That is a fair answer. Thank you. The committee has received a mixture of responses. One of the things that witnesses have done is looked back at the Covid pandemic and said that what happened then might be a good model for going forward. Others have said that that might be a bad model. Some of the key themes were that, on the positive side, decisions were made more quickly and some of the bureaucratic systems were chopped a bit but that, on the bad side, there was less consultation before decisions were made. Again, it is a wide question, but generally, did good things happen that we could take forward?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

Are you saying that there is, in effect, no loss of revenue to the Government?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

John Mason

I largely agree with that.

A specific issue that has come up to the committee recently has been the number of commissioners in Scotland. There is a commissioner for children and a commissioner for human rights, and a commissioner for disabled people is proposed. There is a wide range of commissioners. Do you have a particular view on them? Some people think that they are a bit undemocratic and are not answerable to anyone.