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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 April 2025
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Displaying 708 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

I understand entirely how complicated the issue is, and I understand why your focus has been on supporting schools throughout the pandemic. However, in our evidence sessions, it has been said to us that there is an argument for a degree of re-baselining with regard to attainment, because of the impact of the pandemic.

So that we get a clearer picture, will you set out where we are now on attainment and the challenge as a result of the pandemic, set against where we were pre-pandemic? How would you quantify that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

Yes—in terms of empowerment and local authorities’ direct control over the system. What was the landscape at the start and what is it now?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

We have focused our inquiry on the west region, and you are involved in the regional improvement collaborative there. Teachers have told us that the pandemic has had a massively detrimental effect on the work and the scale of the challenge. Do you accept that characterisation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

Just picking up on the point about RICs, when you reform something, there is inevitably a degree of resentment from some quarters and a period of readjustment. If we look at the approach that is being taken here and at how pupil equity funding and other funding streams have put power in the hands of headteachers—a change that some local authorities did not particularly like—we see that there was a similar impact to that of setting up the RICs. Education Scotland has had direct involvement in that. Do you accept that there was a degree of pushback by local authorities—or at least some of them—at the outset, and has that changed? Have we got to a position where everybody is now pulling in the same direction or do we still have some way to go?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

I have a follow-up question for Pamela Di Nardo. As I said earlier, we have focused on the west region, which has a significant poverty issue and attainment gap to tackle, and everybody has a clear focus on tackling that—just as they did prior to this workstream. Is it the same situation across the rest of the country? I think that you were involved in the Tayside regional improvement collaborative at the outset. That collaborative takes in a major city with significant deprivation and attainment issues, but also rural areas such as mine, where there are towns with a focus of deprivation, and challenges that are masked in the rural areas—my colleague Oliver Mundell will come on to that later. Is the picture that Craig Clement paints a universal one across Scotland, or are there different sets of challenges and recognition of those challenges? Are we seeing variation in the performance of the RICs in the context of attainment?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

A group of principal teachers and headteachers that Bob Doris and I met in Glasgow said that there were fads in the first year but they were quickly identified as fads and ditched. They said that we are now in a space where we know what works in tackling the attainment gap. Is that your experience? Is the whole country in that space? Do we now know what needs to be done to tackle the attainment gap? If so, given that starting point and accepting that we may need to re-baseline following the pandemic, do you accept that we ought to see significant progress in the coming years?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

With respect, that still seems a bit vague. That is a self-evident thing to be doing in a proactive way. If there is a risk that some schools have fallen through the cracks and that is avoidable, we should avoid it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

It is in the context of local authorities seeing their role change considerably. Local authorities were the power in local education delivery.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Graeme Dey

I want to take us back to Oliver Mundell’s line of questioning. I apologise if I missed something, but surely there is an active role for Education Scotland in addressing that issue, given that you have a Scotland-wide remit and involvement in every collaborative. You talked about good practice in the Northern Alliance around rural and remote rural schools. Is there not a role for you guys to say to the other RICs, “Look, you have rural schools that would benefit from the amassed corporate knowledge that we have in Scotland, and we want to make sure that you are taking the needs of your rural schools into account.”?

I heard the words “intention” and “aspiration”, but I am more interested in practical application. If you are not already doing that, it would not require Government direction or a policy change. It strikes me that it is self-evident that that should be happening, if it is not happening already.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Petitions

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Graeme Dey

I should acknowledge that the petitioner is one of my constituents. I very much commend her doggedness and constructive suggestions, without which we would not have reached this stage.

Clearly, Covid has interrupted progress. It would be appropriate to write to the cabinet secretary, seeking an understanding of where matters rest at the moment.