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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 708 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Colleges Regionalisation Inquiry

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Graeme Dey

I am seeking to get two points of clarification from Karen Watt.

First, you indicated earlier that, in determining the level of funding that universities enjoy, you take account of the additional overheads—their cost base. Do you also take account of their ability to generate income from other sources? I see that you are nodding your head, so I will take that as a yes. I am sure that you see the point that I am getting at: colleges do not enjoy the same opportunity.

Secondly, if you were to arrive at a decision that the funding per student should be the same for colleges as for universities where there is like-for-like provision, what would that be worth to colleges? Can you give us a ballpark figure?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Colleges Regionalisation Inquiry

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Graeme Dey

Could you write to us on that, to give us a sense of what difference that would make?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Colleges Regionalisation Inquiry

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Graeme Dey

I want to pick up on the issue of pay harmonisation. It strikes me that, particularly in the early days of mergers and regionalisation, a considerable amount of work was done, and a lot of money was expended, on bringing pay levels into line. That legacy issue has had a substantial effect.

To what extent has pay harmonisation contributed to the financial difficulties that the colleges now face?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Colleges Regionalisation Inquiry

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Graeme Dey

Good morning. Before I explore the issue of the funding model, I want to clarify something. The Colleges Scotland submission is very detailed—which we appreciate—and it talks about an effective reduction of £23.9 million in the core budget due to inflation and rising costs, particularly energy costs. That is fine and I accept that. However, the submission also goes on to talk about the Covid consequentials and comes to the conclusion that a further reduction of £28 million has arisen on its baseline budget, which means a total deterioration of £51.9 million in the financial position. Were you ever given to understand that the Covid consequentials would be consolidated in future budgets?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities

Meeting date: 28 September 2022

Graeme Dey

That is very well argued.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities

Meeting date: 28 September 2022

Graeme Dey

Good morning. I think that we have covered many of the questions that I wanted to ask, but I want to touch on this from a perspective that we have only fleetingly engaged with. I do not doubt the merits of the cases that both of you make on behalf of your members, nor do I question your right to come here today and call for greater funding for those interests. However, I would contend that with rights come responsibilities. We have heard asks for better pay for staff and increases in grants and bus fares, but all of those have to be paid for. We have acknowledged that there is considerable pressure on the Scottish Government’s budget, which will only increase in the years to come.

Can I ask each of you where the funding would come from to meet those asks? Are we talking about looking elsewhere in the education budget and making cuts there? Are we talking about cuts to the budgets for social security, justice or net zero, for example?

Mary Senior, to be fair, you indicated that a progressive taxation approach would be the answer to this, but you will appreciate that there are other areas of education that would contend that they are worthy recipients of the fruits of that approach. At our previous meeting, on 21 September, colleges told us that less money comes to them per student than goes to the university sector. It is a difficult question, but I want to pose that to both of you because, in the real world, the money has to come from somewhere.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities

Meeting date: 28 September 2022

Graeme Dey

I suspect that the Federation of Small Businesses might have a different view on the small business bonus scheme.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities

Meeting date: 28 September 2022

Graeme Dey

But you are not telling us what you would deprioritise to meet those priorities.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities

Meeting date: 28 September 2022

Graeme Dey

In other words, it should just find the money from wherever.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities

Meeting date: 28 September 2022

Graeme Dey

You will appreciate, Professor Boyne, that everyone will be making that argument in a time of straitened financial circumstances. Everyone can make a case. You make a valid case, but it is not as easy as that to find the moneys that you are looking for.