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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 November 2024
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Displaying 565 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

I can offer a political perspective, based on the discussions that I have been involved in. We are given extensive clinical advice and, when there are degrees of doubt, that is explained to the politicians before we make such decisions. Progress—if you want to call it that—has been made on the number of vaccines that are now deemed to be acceptable, although there are still a couple that do not pass muster, from our perspective.

From a political judgment point of view, I have felt more comfortable because of the explanations provided by our clinical advisers, who of course draw on expertise from across the globe.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

I recognise that description, but it is largely a thing of the past. Only a small number of countries are captured by the red list. All four UK nations have become increasingly aware of the need to avoid such situations. The issue that you describe is one that arose previously, but I am not sure that it is as relevant now, when only a small number of countries are captured by the red list.

If I was not here, I would be taking part in a Covid operations committee meeting with the other UK nations to discuss what to do next. There is regular dialogue on such matters. As part of that, there is recognition of the need to engage with travellers to minimise the difficulties that were experienced previously.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

Colleagues will have different experiences; my experience on buses has been more positive.

We are engaged directly with bus service providers. I pay tribute to the work that they have done to support us. There will be examples of people not wearing masks; if you have examples from a particular bus route, please bring them to me.

I had a meeting with the Confederation of Passenger Transport two days ago. It is doing more and more to encourage mask wearing, but there is a limit to what it can do. There have been unfortunate instances of bus drivers being verbally abused when a person has got on a bus and the driver has asked them to put a mask on. However, some people sitting on a bus without a mask might be medically exempt, which will not be obvious. If MSPs have specific examples, please bring them to me and we will engage with the relevant bus provider.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

As we have heard, there is also the creation of a culture and a mindset around the situation from the measures that we have put in place. We are trying to make it clear to as many participants as we can what measures need to be followed, whether within COP26, when they are using public transport or whatever. Everyone needs to be mindful of the need to look after themselves and the people around them to minimise that risk.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

There have been extensive preparations for the COP and there will be a range of measures, which Jason Leitch can outline in detail. As someone who will be attending the event, I am impressed by the range of measures in place. Those are tailored to delegates’ different circumstances. Jason can give you the full detail.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

Thank you, convener. I will briefly address the instruments that the committee is considering today, taking them in order.

Since coming into force, the international travel regulations have been amended extensively, and were contained in several instruments. The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel and Operator Liability) (Scotland) Regulations 2021 consolidate them into one, and did so on expiry of the existing regulations on 20 September.

A number of structural and drafting changes have been made with the intention of improving readability and intelligibility of the regulations. There have been a further five amending instruments to the regulations. Following the regular four-nations review of analysis by the joint biosecurity centre, the first amendment, which is SSI 2021/328, moved Bangladesh, Egypt, Kenya, the Maldives, Oman, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Turkey from the list of red countries to the list of amber countries.

As Scotland and other countries continue to respond to the challenge of the pandemic, vaccines have played a key role in allowing international travel to open up to a greater extent in a safer way. For people arriving in or returning to Scotland who have been vaccinated in Scotland, the option of providing evidence of having been vaccinated was previously limited to showing a paper certificate. In addition to the paper and downloadable PDF version of the vaccination certificates that are issued by NHS Scotland, the number 2 amendment regulations—SSI 2021/343—enable the NHS Scotland Covid status app to be used as proof of vaccination status, in recognition of the shifting landscape of international travel and vaccines, as well as a new framework for assessing the risk that is posed from other countries.

The four nations collectively agreed to overhaul the international travel policy to make it more straightforward and responsive to the current public health landscape. The new travel regime that will be implemented by the number 3 regulations—SSI 2021/350—abolished the traffic light system for all but the highest risk red-list countries. For the vast majority of cases, travellers will be subject to border health measures based on whether they meet the eligible vaccinated travel criteria, rather than on which country they have travelled from.

Eligible vaccinated travellers will no longer be required to take a pre-departure test or to self-isolate for 10 days upon arrival, with all others still being required to do so. Travellers arriving from a red-list country, regardless of vaccination status, are still required to book into managed quarantine facilities, and the associated testing regime remains in place, given that those countries have been assessed as posing the highest risk.

Other changes that were introduced by the instrument include accepting more countries’ vaccination programmes for the eligible vaccinated travel policy and amending the obligations on carriers following the introduction of the new regime. New arrangements were put in place for cruise passengers, given the restarting of international cruises, and there were some minor sectoral exemptions and specified competition additions.

The number 4 regulations—SSI 2021/357—made more countries’ vaccination programmes eligible for the new policy, in addition to recognising individuals who had been vaccinated through the United Nations vaccine programme, and allowed for the European Union digital Covid certificate to be used as proof of a negative pre-departure test. The regulations also significantly reduced to seven the number of countries on the red list.

The spread of the delta variant across the world and its interaction with previous variants of concern mean that many countries have been assessed as posing no additional heightened risk to the United Kingdom from international travel. The countries that remain on the red list are all in central America and South America and the Caribbean. Delta has been slower to reach that region than it has elsewhere in the world, and there are still variants of concern there, particularly the lambda and mu variants, about which we do not yet have sufficient evidence of interaction with delta to reduce the risk assessment.

The SSI also made a number of changes to cater for the arrivals to the 26th United Nations climate change conference of the parties—COP26—where bespoke travel arrangements based on public health advice have been agreed with the UK Government and the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change in order to hold a successful conference in Glasgow.

The number 5 regulations—SSI 2021/359—made further amendments to the eligible vaccinated arrival policy, including the provision to include among eligible vaccinated arrivals a person resident in Scotland or England who has not been vaccinated on medical grounds. That amendment was the outcome of the on-going review of the scope of the exemption for eligible vaccinated arrivals, with regard to which we have been particularly conscious of the policy’s equalities-based impacts, particularly on those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. There have also been further amendments to clarify the position for COP26 participants and on the diplomatic exemption in the regulations.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

I think that I should bring in the expert here.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

That is also determined through the clinical judgment of GPs from conversations with people, perhaps over the telephone. Ultimately, a GP will make a decision based on that consultation.

I acknowledge your point, Mr Rowley, but we are in very difficult circumstances.

11:00  

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

I will deal first with ministerial responses. I noticed the finger pointing in my direction when you were talking about ministerial responses. I hope that what you described is not the case for me; I like to think that my correspondence is turned around very quickly. I am sure that you will tell me if that is not the case.

When I was Minister for Parliamentary Business in the previous session of Parliament, we set up dedicated contact points within Government. I do not mean this as a criticism of MSPs, because they were trying to help their constituents and it was a pretty fraught time, but one of the problems that arose was that the same email was going to three or four different mailboxes, which was creating difficulty in the system. Jason Leitch might say something in a minute, from his point of view. I will mention to the Minister for Parliamentary Business that what you suggest might be helpful. I will ask him to have a chat with health colleagues and then to share with MSPs what is decided.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Graeme Dey

It would surprise me if there were “Huge numbers”—