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Do we have the capacity to deal with it?

There seems to be a pressing need for genuine partnership working on the matter, but it is lacking at the moment.

I am trying to make the point that the reason why we find ourselves in the situation is that there is a lack of suitable accommodation in England and Wales. If action is taken now that leads to a further reduction in capacity in England, despite the best of intentions here, there might well be an increase in applications to house such children. If we are to assist in that, I want to be absolutely sure that we have the capacity to do so.

As other colleagues have done, minister, I thank you for your very helpful letter in advance of the meeting. The regulations, whatever else they have done, have shone a light on the whole issue, in particular given the commissioner’s response to them.

I will touch on one point. There is a report in The Times this morning on the problems down south. It asserts that there are “scores of inexperienced ... owners” opening children’s homes, with the inference that that is clearly not good for vulnerable children who have been taken into care for very serious reasons.

How do we, in Scotland, ensure that settings in which those children, or any children, are placed are of a type that we would deem appropriate? Are there any plans to strengthen safeguards further in the forthcoming primary legislation?

In the interests of time, my opening question can be answered by a nod or shake of the head, or a simple yes or no. A few moments ago, Willie Rennie advanced a theory—a criterion, if you like—that two-year-olds should attract an enhanced rate because of the ratios that would be required to supervise them. Do we accept that that is the case—yes or no?

I am seeing nodding heads, so we accept that that is the case. In that case, Matthew Sweeney, why are so many councils not paying an enhanced rate for two-year-olds, set against what is available for three-year-olds and above?

I do not accept that at all. A number of councils are doing that. Angus Council, my own local authority, has the fourth highest rate of provision for two-year-olds in the whole of the country, and it is paying considerably more for them than for children aged three and over. Some councils are clearly walking the walk.

That takes me to the process for rate setting. Forgive me for asking what might be a layman’s question. What is the process? What are councils meant to take account of? Should they look at issues such as the cost of rents in an area or economies of scale? What do they take account of in setting rates and how is the private sector involved in that process? Do they have discussions? Is there input? Is there an appeals procedure if the rates being offered are deemed to be completely unsatisfactory?

Thank you. That clears it up.

What would you consider to be “recent”?

I want to be clear. Are you saying that the conversation about the proposals took place only last week, after they had become public?

My question is about the interaction and relationship between the office of the commissioner and the Scottish Government. From what you have said, there seems to be quite a lot of blue water between your position and that of the Government. Was there any discussion between the office of the commissioner and the Scottish Government while the regulations were being put together?