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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 708 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not disagree with that. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. We often find that victims and their families are looking for reassurance and want to know what measures have been taken to protect them, but it is impossible to get information on that. The ground for that is that that information cannot be shared, because those matters pertain to the alleged perpetrator. That exacerbates the sense of concern of victims and their families. That is what I am getting at.

I do not have the answer; I simply wanted to get a sense that you recognise that that is an issue.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I was struck by the idea that witnesses do not tell Parliament and committees what should be added to a bill by way of amendment.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Even with that framework, I guess that there is always a degree of subjectivity in the decision making that takes place. It must leave you open to accusations of a lack of consistency on occasions—perhaps unfairly, given everything that you have to take account of.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Before I move on to my questions, I want to go back to what Kenny Donnelly just said. What about a scenario in which two people of the same age commit the same offence but one is dealt with under the children’s hearings system while the other is referred to the criminal justice system? It can take up to two years for the latter to be dealt with, because of court delays, by which time the other person will have been dealt with, will perhaps have been rehabilitated and will have a more positive outlook. Is that not the greatest inconsistency here?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not need to be convinced—I have visited one—but, when there are changes to the law such as this, there will be an element of the public that will want that reassurance.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

It does, and, unless Superintendent Dobson corrects me, it is unrealistic to guarantee that police officers—considering everything else they deal with—will provide that information at the outset.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Absolutely.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Mr Hogg, in response to Willie Rennie’s question on the subject of victims, you talked about early signposting to victim support. However, it not practical to assume that police officers, who are dealing with very troubled and traumatic situations in which people are very upset, as well as doing so much else, can be a conduit for information and, at the end of the interaction, say, “By the way, you can go to victim support. Here is a card.” How do you ensure that, at a very early stage, beyond the first police interaction, victims are signposted to their opportunity to contact victim support?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Is another strategy not the last thing that we need? Is it not action that we need? On that basis, this process of interrogating your bill has laid bare, for all the committee members, I think, the shocking situation that exists.

Would the purpose that we are all committed to not be better served by looking closely at what does not work—rather than focusing on one aspect of it, or a couple of aspects, as your bill does—and changing lots of little things that would make a huge difference? Is there not a bigger picture here beyond the bill that we ought to be focusing on more?

10:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Graeme Dey

What was the outcome?