Seòmar agus comataidhean

Until December. They are still looking at that.

I do not doubt that colleges are having to take very difficult decisions at the moment, and I recognise that those decisions have consequences. That is why the detailed dialogue that we have entered into with the colleges is so important. There is a constructive dialogue about what we can do to enable colleges to become more sustainable in the short and medium term. That is the spirit in which those discussions are taking place, and they will be ramped up next week when I meet college representatives directly.

I recognise that point. You have highlighted the need for additional investment in early years provision and, no doubt, in various other things, but we have a fixed budget for education and cannot do everything.

You make an important point about the opportunity for youngsters who might live in a rural setting and want to go to college in an urban one. That could also be reversed: people who live in an urban setting might want to go to college in a rural one. The Withers proposals give us the opportunity to look at how we provide college education. We tend to focus on university students travelling to different parts of the country to do their courses, but I think that Withers gives us the opportunity to look at that in a college setting.

We will have to emphasise the needs of the economy, but other courses are also absolutely essential and some of our colleges might become centres of excellence. If we are going to do that—which is a conversation that we must have—we must look at how we will support college students to attend particular centres of excellence. We could see rural to urban migration, but we could also see the reverse. For example, Borders College provides some really good gamekeeping courses, and I do not doubt that some urbanites will want to go there. We must look at how we will deliver that in the future.

If you are referring to some form of emergency funding package for colleges or the general approach to funding, we are absolutely not in a position to provide additional funding to colleges right now. On what future funding looks like, Withers is very clear that there is no shortage of funding in the skills and post-school education landscape. It is about how we better utilise that funding. That will form part of the discussion that we have around Withers and taking that issue and various other things forward.

To be clear, the meeting next week is for us to try to get agreement and put something firmly in place. Once we are in a position to do that, I hope that we will be able to write to the committee jointly to outline what is happening.

Now you are trying to put me on the spot, convener.

I think the universities will be engaged in conversations with other ministerial colleagues on that.

Good morning, convener. Thank you for inviting me to come before the committee to discuss plans for an education exchange programme as a replacement for Erasmus+. I appreciate your understanding the other week when I had to be in Liverpool on Government business.

I am aware that members will want to expand their questioning into other areas of my portfolio, including university funding and college governance. I have a team of officials with me to assist in providing the answers that members will be looking for. Before we get into those items, I want to make some initial points about our commitment to develop an exchange programme.

Scotland is an open and inclusive country, and we welcome and benefit from students who come to study in many of our first-class further and higher education institutions. Equally, learners who reside in Scotland benefit from international study exchanges in many ways.

In 2021-22, we welcomed the record number of 82,000 international students to a range of programmes, including scholarships. I am grateful for the work of our colleges’ and universities’ international offices in continuing to ensure Scotland’s global presence and reputation as a place in which to learn, study, develop and work.

Erasmus has been an integral part of our international exchange offer for many years. The last round of Erasmus+ funding, which was between 2014 and 2020, awarded over €141 million to in excess of 1,000 Scottish projects. That enabled more than 2,200 university students and 200 higher education staff from Scotland to participate in Erasmus+ annually. Proportionately more students from Scotland took part in Erasmus compared with students in any other country in the United Kingdom, and more students came to Scotland than came to any other part of the UK. That is a testament to our institutions.

As the committee is all too aware, the UK Government’s decision not to associate with Erasmus+ after leaving the European Union prevents Scotland from participating fully in its own right. In May, YouthLink Scotland shared with the committee evidence of the positive impact that the Erasmus+ programme had on the lives of our young people and professionals who supported them. As YouthLink Scotland revealed, research has shown that young people who engage with our youth work sector gain the most from those experiences and that they are transformative and life changing for them. The programmes remove barriers and provide opportunities for more positive future paths for our young people.

I say again that it is with deep frustration that I acknowledge the negative impact on the young people of Scotland of the UK Government’s decision to withdraw from Erasmus+. I am sure that the committee will agree with me on that.

In 2021, the UK Government launched the Turing scheme as a replacement for Erasmus+, and I am pleased that Scottish institutions have secured £17.6 million in the first two years of Turning. Unfortunately, though, Turing does not match the breadth and scope of Erasmus+, as it offers no provision for students to come to the UK or for staff exchanges. The Scottish Government will continue to engage with the UK Government to try to make Turing better reflect Scotland’s needs.

Although we remain committed to the Erasmus+ programme and to working with the UK Government to address the shortfalls in the Turing scheme, the Scottish Government pledged to create a Scottish education exchange programme, which would support people from across our education system.

My officials have been engaging with universities and other partners from across the education system to identify opportunities for collaboration on a Scottish programme that will seek not only to address shortfalls in the Turing scheme but to promote Scotland as an outward-looking and internationally connected country and as a positive destination for work and study.

I am keen—not least in view of the immensely challenging financial climate—that we get the best return for the students and staff involved from the investment that we make. With that in mind, during a meeting with Universities Scotland yesterday, I undertook to engage directly with that sector. I will also be looking for input from other sectors to shape the final proposals.

We recognise the key role that exchange programmes play in supporting our priorities. With that in mind, I commit to updating the committee on the timetable for delivery of the commitment following on from that engagement.

I thank the committee for the opportunity to come before it to share that and to answer any questions that members may have.

That is not what we are saying at all, and I think that you know that. Considerable support is provided to a number of rurally based colleges across the country, of which the University of the Highlands and Islands and Borders College are two examples, to ensure that young people who reside in rural settings are able to access colleges on their doorstep or as close to home as possible.

There is also a great opportunity to use technology to improve and enhance what is available remotely.

You spoke about New College Lanarkshire and gave specific examples. Ministers do not have a role in the operational decisions that are taken by individual colleges. You raised the point about halls of residence during a debate in the chamber last week. I thought that the nursery issue had been paused.

I would anticipate that the Government will be at the forefront of funding this.

We have already said that, and I have already told you what we are going to do.