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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 November 2024
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Displaying 565 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

We need to be a bit careful about the issue of reserves, because some of those moneys are not cash reserves. We must recognise that some will be earmarked for substantial investment in the universities, which will be incredibly important to Scotland and to the economy.

Also, in order to act in the best interests of their institution, universities have to have roughly 90 days’ worth of cash reserves available. It is easy to look at those numbers, total them up and make the point that you have just made—I recognise that point.

We should also acknowledge that our universities are doing a lot outwith the obvious. For example, many are going into schools to assist in encouraging young women to get into science, technology, engineering and maths subjects. That is just one example; there are a lot of outreach projects and the universities are doing a lot of things with their own resources to benefit us. Therefore, I am a bit hesitant to say, “Yeah, it is a rainy day—let’s spend these resources.” We would encourage universities to play their part in what needs to happen, but the situation is not as black and white as it might look.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

The issue of trust in the machinery is at the heart of this. There is a lack of trust in the machinery and how it operates, and both sides will criticise each other about how each operates within it, but we have to get beyond that. For example, there is a recognition now that how the college employers’ side operates in the context of negotiations hinders the development of trust. In effect, those negotiators do not have a mandate to negotiate; they have to go back to the executive of College Employers Scotland and, ultimately, the principals’ group. There are also issues on the other side, which I think are recognised.

On the point of an independent chair, as I said earlier, that is still at a delicate stage. Some people accept the concept of an independent chair, but some people do not want an independent chair, although they would accept an independent facilitator. Some people might think that that is semantics, but the fact of the matter is that that distinction matters in this context. For example, if there were to be a facilitator or chair, what would their role be? What would their powers be? Once that has been agreed on, you can look for an individual who would be prepared to take on that role and would be acceptable to both sides. The Government cannot impose anything; this has to be done by agreement. I am optimistic that we can reach agreement on that, and I think that it would be helpful to have someone in that role, at least in the short to medium term.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

It will be recurring. In our commitment to the employers, we recognise that it is not just one-off funding. It will be consolidated and included in the years to come as part of our settlement.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

We will add that to the list of things to update the committee on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

Again, I will have to provide a follow-up update on that, if I may, convener. More than a year ago, the SFC suggested some additional powers that it felt it would benefit from having. I subsequently asked it to consider whether those would be entirely appropriate in the light of our approach to giving colleges and principals greater flexibility. You are absolutely right that some of the SFC’s powers are pretty blunt and out of date. If we are going to move into a space where we are empowering colleges and principals to deliver for their local economies and giving them a bit of freedom to do that, we need to be sure that the right governance is in place, whether it be on college boards or through the SFC.

One of the complications that we have had is the governance arrangements that have been in place for a number of years. The SFC has an additional tier of governance in between it and the colleges’ regional boards. As you are aware, we have a consultation running to address some of that.

There is no doubt that the SFC requires additional powers of intervention. You have cited fair work, but there are other areas to consider. I find it incongruous that the SFC requires to be consulted on voluntary redundancy schemes but not on compulsory redundancy schemes. That needs to be addressed. The power to compel institutions, principally colleges, to provide financial information that they do not have is also quite important.

I am not entirely sure whether I have seen a revised set of proposals, but I will check that and write to the committee. That will be part of the work that we are taking forward. As I said earlier, there must be checks and balances as we empower the colleges.

I would also like to see the SFC take a slightly different approach to some issues and, instead of taking a sector-wide response, to target its responses at a collection of colleges or at an individual college. I think that the SFC needs to get better and more surgical in its approach.

There has been, and continues to be, a dialogue with the SFC about the appropriate balance of powers and there is no doubt that its powers need to be revised.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

I accept that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

I will say what I envisage, as we work through this year to ramp it up. It depends on what you mean. Is it the all-singing, all-dancing—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

A lot has happened, financially, since 2021.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

Thanks for the warning.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

I will write back to you in detail on that, convener. I am aware that, as yet, that funding settlement has not cleared. It is still under consideration, and I will come back to you on that point.

However, I am right in saying that we have already enhanced funding for the youth sector in another area. It is not that we are neglecting the youth sector. Again, I can write to you with the detail on that.