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That was a private meeting, but the subject was aired.

I can speak to the conversations that I have had, and my officials can perhaps add to that. Last week, I met the University and College Union, and we had a discussion about the circumstances surrounding the issue. I had further discussion with the universities yesterday.

We find ourselves in a regrettable situation, and the impact that it is having on students is also regrettable. The situation is indicative of a strained relationship between the trade unions and management in the universities sector. I have urged management in Scotland to get the Universities and Colleges Employers Association back to the table with the trade unions to make progress in resolving the dispute. That is the only way in which we will get it sorted out. Individual universities have taken different approaches to addressing the impacts of the marking boycott, which are varied, depending on the institutions. The situation in which we find ourselves is not at all satisfactory and we need to get it resolved.

As the committee is aware, an additional pressure arose as a consequence of settling the teachers pay dispute. That money had to be found from the education budget. That is the nature of Government.

We have had that exchange previously, in the chamber. The simple fact is that, if the money is not there, it cannot be magicked up. I absolutely regret the pressures that the colleges are under and the redundancies that are having to be made, but I am afraid that that is the reality of the situation.

In a minute, I will bring in Jess Dolan on the detail of some of that.

One issue that has come across my desk during the past few weeks—no doubt there are good reasons for this—is that, if a college conducts a process of voluntary severance, it has to run that past the SFC. However, it does not have to do so if it is conducting an exercise in compulsory redundancy, which is a little bit anomalous. It relates to what you just said about the oversight of processes, and I am keen to have a look at it.

Not specifically, because it predates my time in post. They are required to pay heed to public sector pay policy but are not bound by it. That is the nature of the structures that they have.

I undertake to do that.

Until December. They are still looking at that.

I do not doubt that colleges are having to take very difficult decisions at the moment, and I recognise that those decisions have consequences. That is why the detailed dialogue that we have entered into with the colleges is so important. There is a constructive dialogue about what we can do to enable colleges to become more sustainable in the short and medium term. That is the spirit in which those discussions are taking place, and they will be ramped up next week when I meet college representatives directly.

I recognise that point. You have highlighted the need for additional investment in early years provision and, no doubt, in various other things, but we have a fixed budget for education and cannot do everything.

You make an important point about the opportunity for youngsters who might live in a rural setting and want to go to college in an urban one. That could also be reversed: people who live in an urban setting might want to go to college in a rural one. The Withers proposals give us the opportunity to look at how we provide college education. We tend to focus on university students travelling to different parts of the country to do their courses, but I think that Withers gives us the opportunity to look at that in a college setting.

We will have to emphasise the needs of the economy, but other courses are also absolutely essential and some of our colleges might become centres of excellence. If we are going to do that—which is a conversation that we must have—we must look at how we will support college students to attend particular centres of excellence. We could see rural to urban migration, but we could also see the reverse. For example, Borders College provides some really good gamekeeping courses, and I do not doubt that some urbanites will want to go there. We must look at how we will deliver that in the future.

If you are referring to some form of emergency funding package for colleges or the general approach to funding, we are absolutely not in a position to provide additional funding to colleges right now. On what future funding looks like, Withers is very clear that there is no shortage of funding in the skills and post-school education landscape. It is about how we better utilise that funding. That will form part of the discussion that we have around Withers and taking that issue and various other things forward.