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We can easily do that. We can keep the committee and Parliament up to date about how we are getting on.

There have been 400 registrations for the lived experience experts panel so far. I want that number to be much higher and we will do all that we can to boost that. There is also the stakeholder register that I mentioned already. I want as many people as possible to play a role.

Beyond the lived experience panel and stakeholder groups, I will continue doing what I have always done, which is to go out and about and listen. That is the essential element in all of this. Sometimes, when you go out, you find that folk have come up with a simple solution that has never been tried before or that happens in one place but not in another. We must export the best practice that exists. This is quite a small country, but we have sometimes not done that particularly well. The NCS gives us an opportunity to do that better, but that does not mean that we should not be doing that in the here and now.

The purpose of the charter is to ensure that everyone knows and understands their rights and responsibilities and what to expect from the future national care service. In addition, the charter will provide information on the process for upholding those rights.

The forthcoming Scottish human rights bill will underpin in statute human rights in Scotland, and we are working across Government to ensure that the co-design work which is taking place will reflect the contents of that future bill. The intention is to include information on the NCS complaints and redress system, which will provide the necessary recourse if the rights in the charter are breached. That will provide a clear pathway to empower people to claim their care-specific rights, through raising awareness of those rights and informing people about how to bring a complaint should those rights not be met.

As we move forward with incremental change, we have to continue to listen to organisations. I am pleased that you have already had a number of organisations here this morning, so that you could hear at first hand some of the things that they want to see. Their voices are required for that co-design. I have talked about the expertise of those with lived experience, but there is also the expertise of those folks who work on the third sector’s front line for many groups, including those disabled persons organisations that I mentioned earlier. We pledge to listen as we go along.

Let us be honest about the fact that co-design will have to be done within parameters. However, people understand that and they also understand that certain things might not be achievable. I have faith in people bringing their views to the table and helping us to make the right decisions as we move forward.

This may sound a bit flippant—perhaps Dr Jim Elder-Woodward will have a pop at me later—but I have no option whatsoever but to listen to Jim, and I will always consider whatever he puts forward. As the committee may or may not be aware, Dr Elder-Woodward serves on the social covenant steering group, and he has been a very strong voice for disabled people’s rights for a very long time. I give the commitment to Ms Duncan-Glancy that we will consider whatever Jim puts forward—I do not have the option not to.

There are other ways in which folk can get redress. The complaints and redress system is really important for people and we need to ensure that we listen to people on that front too. We will listen to folk during the co-design work in order to ensure that we get that right.

People feel that some aspects of the complaints and redress system work well, but others do not. We need to look at how we make a change from the bottom up so that people feel that they are actually being listened to, that their complaints are being dealt with appropriately and that the right redress is available.

Again, I say to Mr Balfour and to the committee that we will listen to what folks have to say about the pitfalls and where the system has gone wrong for them in the past, and we will build a system that works for all.

As far as I am concerned, improved carer support is one of the core objectives of the national care service. I was at the carers parliament, and I heard some stories that were galling, to say the least. The Government has put substantial resources into carers support, and over the last period, in recognition of what folks had gone through with Covid, we provided additional moneys to allow for more short-term breaks.

However, I know from talking to folk at the carers parliament—members will also hear this in their constituencies—that that money often does not get to the people to whom it should. We have to do much better in that regard, and that is why, in the bill, we have enshrined the right to short-term breaks. We obviously have work to do on that—again, we need to listen. It is essential that we get that element absolutely right.

A man from Shetland, Jim Guyan—I will name him because I saw his name in the papers, so I hope that I winna get into trouble—said that he asked Shetland health and social care partnership and others where money for carers support is going, but he is unable to get that information. Folk should not have difficulty in getting information on where money is going.

There were discussions at the carers parliament about whether the Government should ring fence elements of carers support, but that is not popular with local government, as we all know, and it is often not popular with some of you folks who are round the table. There is a level of frustration among many carers that they are not getting the deal that they should be, but the bill will enhance those rights.

Good morning to you, convener, and to the committee, and thank you for having me along to give evidence on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. It is fair to say that the national care service is one of the most ambitious reforms of public services since the creation of the NHS. It will end the postcode lottery of care provision across Scotland and ensure that those who need it have access to consistent and high-quality care and support to enable them to live a full life, wherever they are.

The bill sets out a framework for the changes that we want to make and allows scope for further decisions to be made as it progresses through Parliament towards becoming legislation. That flexibility will enable the national care service to develop, adapt and respond to specific circumstances over time.

I want to take time to reflect on why change of such scale is necessary. Scotland’s community health and social care system has seen significant incremental change over the past 20 years. Despite that, people with experience of receiving care support, and of providing it, have been clear that some significant issues remain. Those were detailed in the 2021 independent review of adult social care services, which set out a compelling case for change, including recommending reform of social care in Scotland and strengthening national accountability.

We are not just changing to address the challenges of today; we must ensure that we build a public service that is fit for tomorrow. Today, about one in 25 people receives social care, social work or occupational health support in Scotland, and demand is forecast to grow. The NCS must be developed to take account of our future needs. We will build a system that is sustainable and future proofed to take account of the changing needs of our population. I believe that the principles for an NCS, as set out in the bill, support that aim.

This is not about nationalisation of services. The bill sets out that, at national level, the functions are focused on consistency through national oversight. Services will continue to be designed and delivered locally. That is the right approach, to support delivery with and for our communities and the people whom those services serve. Local government will be an important partner as we design the detail.

We are conscious of the importance of the role that housing plays in supporting independent living. We will look at how services such as housing support, adaptations and technology contribute to the principles that are set out in the bill. Of course, those services should deliver increased early intervention that prevents or delays the need for crisis care. It is for that reason that we recognise how valuable the interfaces between housing and homelessness services with the NCS will be. We want everyone in Scotland to have choice, dignity and freedom to access suitable homes that are built or adapted to support their needs. We are embedding a person-centred approach that will align the NCS with housing and health services.

The NCS will bring changes that will benefit the workforce, too. The importance of staff in the social care sector has never been clearer, and we are fully committed to improving their experience, because we recognise and value the work that they do. The NCS will ensure enhanced pay and conditions for workers and will act as an exemplar in its approach to fair work. Our co-design process will ensure that the NCS is built with the people whom it serves, and those who deliver it, at its very heart. We are committed to working with people with first-hand experience of accessing and delivering community health and social care to ensure that we have a person-centred national care service that best fits the needs of the people who will use and work in its services. Of course, convener, the service must have human rights at its very centre.

As many committee members will know, I have a background in local government—I served for 13 years on Aberdeen City Council—and I recognise the importance of local government and local democracy. As we move forward with the national care service, local government will still play a major part in the delivery of services, if it chooses to do so. It is extremely important to set that out.

We have also said—I reiterated this at the Finance and Public Administration Committee last week—that, with the changes that we propose, we aim to create a cost-neutral position for local government as we move forward. However, it is clear to us from the feedback in the consultation, and it was absolutely apparent in the responses to the Feeley review, that people want to see a change in accountability for how care is delivered in Scotland. Disabled persons organisations, individuals and other groups feel that accountability is lacking at the moment. When I took up this post, I was surprised to find how important accountability is for people. At the moment, there is no national accountability to Scottish ministers. We aim to change that and to make local accountability more important.

One issue is that people often feel that they are pushed from pillar to post—the committee may have heard that but, if not, I appeal to you to go and speak to those who are receiving care and support at the moment. People go to a health and social care partnership with a complaint about the care that they are receiving and will be told, “That’s not our responsibility—it’s the local authority’s responsibility,” or that it is the NHS’s responsibility. Therefore, accountability is extremely important for the many people whom we have talked to and, more importantly, listened to. It was also raised as being an extremely important issue in the evidence that Derek Feeley took. That is why his recommendations moved us towards introducing the national care service.

Since the beginning of this parliamentary session, we have put a number of things in place in order that we can listen to the views of people, including the social covenant steering group. Some folk think that a framework bill is somewhat unusual, but a framework and enabling bill is exactly the way in which the NHS was established.

In listening to people—those from the social covenant steering group, in particular, but also other stakeholders—it became very apparent to us that people wanted to be involved in the co-design process all the way through, and that is why we decided on a framework and enabling bill, as was done with the NHS, to allow folk the opportunity as we move forward to co-design all the elements that slot into that framework bill. It is very important, particularly for those folks—the voices of lived experience—that we have done it in that way.

I know—I heard it at the Finance and Public Administration Committee last week—that some folk have asked why we did not do it the other way round, but it is difficult to design something without the framework of primary legislation in place. That is why we have done it in that way.

I think that I should say exactly what I said at the FPA Committee. There has been a concentration on some aspects of what we are trying to do here and not on others. I said to the FPA Committee last week that what people need to do is to look at the suite of documents that we have produced—not just the bill and the financial memorandum but the policy memorandum and the other documents that were produced. That gives us a very clear idea of what we are aiming to achieve here.

Some people want answers to all of the questions now. However, if I was to answer all the questions now, giving my opinions, that would blow the entire concept of co-design out of the water. What I want is for stakeholders and the voices of lived experience to be at the table to help us to co-design the service.

As you can imagine, I have been watching the evidence sessions not only of this committee but of others too. Many of the witnesses have vested interests in terms of where power, accountability and resource lie at the moment. What would be good to see is a committee taking evidence from those folks who are receiving care and support, their carers and families and front-line staff.

I have spent the past 18 months or so listening to people about their experiences, and where they think we have done well and where we have gone wrong over the past two or three decades in terms of changes to care support. It is a duty on all of us not only to listen to those folks who have a vested interest—there is no doubt that they are important stakeholders—but to listen to people. That is why so much emphasis of the work that we have put in is not only to listen to COSLA, SOLACE, the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy and others but to go and hear the views of people. That is why we have had numerous events not only during the course of the consultation but since. That is why we had the national care service forum in Perth the other week, which was extremely well attended.

I ask the committee to look at the responses that came out during the course of that national care service forum. I also appeal to you to listen to and hear from witnesses from disabled people’s organisations, from third sector groups, such as Enable, and from people themselves about their experiences. You will then garner the reasoning why co-design is so important in order to get rid of the implementation gaps that have existed in previous changes that have been made.