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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 November 2025
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Displaying 1508 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Registers of Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

Before you go on, I want to give you an example. I will not give you an example from today because that would probably cause a great deal of grief, but I will go back to when I was first elected to Aberdeen City Council some 25 years ago. There was a small community who wanted to see street lighting on a certain path and it was impossible to decide ownership. At the time, I was very much in favour of the street lighting going in and persuaded the council to do that. An old solicitor at Aberdeen City Council said, “As soon as we do that, whoever owns that land will come forward and suddenly say, ‘You do not have my permission to do so and I am charging the council £X to do so.’” And that is exactly what happened.

Not dissimilar things happen in today’s day and age. The old solicitor back in the day said that those ransom strips were everywhere and had deliberately been kept. How many of those smaller and older parcels of land may be used as ransom strips that stop folk from doing things in their vicinity and even the likes of local authorities or other public services doing things in the vicinity of those bits and pieces of land?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

As a minister, I introduced a fund whereby front-line staff could help homeless people quickly with small amounts of cash, and we could see the differences very quickly. For example, if folk who do not have the right official paperwork can get a wee bit of money to sort that out, we can see positive outcomes quickly because a lot of things are resolved. Sometimes, that flexibility can lead to positive outcomes quickly. The difficulty with that fund was that lots of folk were saying to me, “How do you audit that?” There was far too much emphasis on the audit requirements and worrying that we could not trust folk. Sometimes, with short-term funding, we can measure outcomes quite quickly.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

Again, I will play devil’s advocate, because sometimes it does change things in the long term. Sometimes, little things can make big changes, but we do not necessarily measure that well. Do you agree?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

I would like to tease out these issues a little further. Karin Earl mentioned audit requirements, and we have heard about risk. Trust factors are also at play. However, the key thing in all this is outcomes, which are—let us be honest—sometimes hard to measure. For example, you can say that you will feed 50 kids in Dundee next week but, in most cases, the outcome of doing that will be much greater than just feeding 50 kids.

How do we get all the balances right? Are we getting them right? Are audit requirements sometimes too rigorous? Is the appetite for risk sometimes too low? Do we trust communities and organisations enough to utilise funding properly? Are we measuring outcomes well? I know that I have covered a fair amount, but that is the nub of all this, as far as I am concerned.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

I will challenge you on that point. You said that the shorter the funding period is, the more difficult it is to measure outcomes. However, is it not the case that sometimes, if there is flexibility around one-off funding or a change of funding, you get positive outcomes very quickly?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

I will give you an example.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

I want to follow up on that point briefly and, in doing so, perhaps come back to some previous comments. When we measure outcomes—obviously, you guys are the ones who go back to the organisations that are reporting—are we asking people enough about what difference they think the funding has made to them?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

That is grand. It comes back to Professor Jung’s point about whether we are asking the right questions of people when we do this work. Perhaps Professor Jung will want to answer that question as well as making the point that he wanted to make in response to the previous question.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 10 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

That is grand. Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Programme for Government (Priorities)

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Kevin Stewart

Earlier, you talked about the importance of the supply chain. In the oil and gas supply chain, the knowledge is immense. People within that supply chain recognise that there needs to be change and that they will have to transition but, as things currently stand, they see that as being difficult because they do not have the comfort that they need about some of the regulatory changes that are required, which we have touched on.

How can we get the UK Government to work with us and listen to industry to ensure that we secure jobs for the future and that we do not end up in a situation where jobs dry up and people go elsewhere, when we will need them in order to move forward with the green economy that we want?

11:15