Seòmar agus comataidhean

Given the huge emphasis being placed on the summer engagement in this morning’s meeting, it would be useful if the committee could get a flavour of what that engagement will actually involve. By the sound of it, it will be a key element of how you move forward. It would be fair to say that some of the folks from whom the committee has heard feel that there has been a fair degree of engagement already, although more is required, while others feel that the engagement has not been of the right sort. Therefore, it would be a good idea for the committee to have a flavour of what that engagement will involve and how it will be carried out. I wonder whether the minister can agree to that.

Good morning to the minister and his team. The bill is an extremely important piece of legislation and I am sure that everyone wants to make it successful. To do so will be a tribute to Marion Gibbs, who worked in the civil service on homelessness for a very long time. A fitting tribute to her would be to get this absolutely right.

Minister, you talked about the prevention review group and about engaging and continuing to talk with stakeholders—listening, of course, being as important as talking. However, one thing that you cannot do is legislate for cultural change. In the short time that I have been back on the committee, we have heard from some folk that a culture change is required. How will you ensure that, as well as making legislative and regulatory change, you change cultures so that we get this right for people?

Speaking to people is fine, and listening to people is important, but doing so does not necessarily mean change.

I want to ask about cross-Government working, because the issue is covered by a lot of portfolios. What do you have in place at the moment, beyond the likes of the prevention review group? What do you have at a ministerial, cross-Government level to make sure that all of this works?

Convener, I do not want to speak for the committee, but it would be interesting to see what has been on the agenda at those meetings and what actions have been taken.

My final question is about buy-in and the change of culture. Many of the relevant bodies in the bill fall under other ministers’ portfolios. With regard to engagement thus far, have other ministers asked those bodies how they intend to make changes to fulfil the duties that will come in if the bill is passed?

You have heard all this from me before, minister, and I am sorry to cut across you. I recognise that the issue falls into different portfolios. I get all of that. However, you made a very specific statement about making sure that legislation and regulation are embedded in order to get this right. If you cannot answer today, it would be useful for the committee to receive a response on the actions that are being taken in the here and now to get this right for victims.

We all recognise that a holistic approach needs to be taken, but I think that that kind of phraseology—that is, talking about handing someone over to another body—is part of the problem. Some folk think, “That’s my part of the job done. Now it’s somebody else’s problem.”

Ms Arbuckle, you mentioned some areas in which the police are involved in order to deal with addiction and mental health issues—for example, you talked about DBI. Do you see that sort of thing as part of the job, or is it just a wee bit that you do before handing the person over to somebody else?

I am using your phraseology, Ms Arbuckle. It is not my phraseology—it is yours.

I have no relevant interests to declare.

Thank you very much. I will leave it there, convener.

I thank the witnesses for their answers thus far. I think that everybody agrees that the legislation is necessary. Everybody, as always, has tried to point out the best practice that is taking place. It is just a pity that that was not exported across the board. However, the legislation alone is probably not enough, and there needs to be cultural change across the board. I want to concentrate on some of that and on keeping folk out of crisis.

I was interested in two things that Valerie Arbuckle said. First, you said that “everybody is very busy”. I get that. Most folk are busy dealing with crisis and will become less busy only if they are not dealing with crisis. Secondly, you used the phrase,

“handing the person ... to another ... body”.

I will be honest with you. If that attitude continues—if it is seen to be about handing the person to another body rather than about collaborating with other bodies to provide support—that will not bring about the cultural change that we want to see. Do you want to comment on that, Ms Arbuckle?