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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 November 2025
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Displaying 1570 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

It wouldnae come under the ecocide bill, because you are describing something in England and not in the Scottish jurisdiction. Let us hear from Mr Whittle, please.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

I will paraphrase something that you said earlier, Mr Whittle: you said that a change in the law would lead to culture change. I am quite long in the tooth in this place, and I have to say that changes in legislation do not automatically lead to culture change. What makes you think that the bill would lead to that culture change?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

Was there culture change after the introduction of section 40 of the 2014 act? Is that the reason we are not seeing any prosecutions there?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

Can we hear from Shivali Fifield, please?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

Thank you. That is helpful.

I am a very logical person when it comes to legislation, and I think that, sometimes, we take the most difficult paths to get to where we want to be. In that logical sense, would it not be wiser to, first of all, modernise the permitting system across the board and consider where section 40 is not working before we put in any further additions? I want to see Scotland keep up with our European partners in almost every aspect of life. However, logically in all of this, would it not be best to first deal with those matters that I have discussed before we move on?

Those items could probably be dealt with much more quickly than through a bill that is being discussed right at the tail end of a parliamentary session and that is unlikely to make progress. I am sorry for saying that, Monica, but that is the reality.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

Dr Fifield, I do not disagree with anything that you have just said, but what I am getting at is that the bill could be enacted, an offence could happen, and the offender’s defence could be that it has stuck completely and utterly with the permissions that it was given. Again, I am not a lawyer, but I would argue that that is a pretty good defence. Surely what we have here is putting the cart before the horse. Do you agree?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

So, updating those permits and licenses would be the priority to take into account things such as the forever chemicals that you mentioned earlier?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

It has been said about the regulatory reform act that there have been very few prosecutions. Is that because people are adhering to the existing legislation and regulation?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

I see that Elspeth is nodding. Simon?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Kevin Stewart

In that case, it would probably be more logical to deal with modernisation of the permit system before introducing a bill or legislating for something that would overarch a system that, in your opinion, currently does not operate very well.

09:15