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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 702 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

I was going to pass back to the convener, but I have just thought of another question. In January, Deloitte produced a report that said that the

“average expected return on investment for research and development fell from 6.8 per cent ... to ... 1.2 per cent in 2022.”

That was the lowest return on investment on record. Is that making it more difficult to attract the funding that you are talking about?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

In your report, chart 3 is entitled “Top Universities for Life Sciences Spinouts”. What is that chart trying to tell us? What does it say? The figures for the Scottish universities are in red: the University of Edinburgh has 18 spin-outs, and two that have been exiled. Is that to the golden triangle that you talked about?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Before Sir Michael comes in, I am trying to understand this table a wee bit better.

I accept that it contains only a proportion of the universities, because the University of Dundee is not included. If I read across the various universities that are listed, there were 51 spin-outs, of which four in Scotland have exited. In the UK, there were 248 spin-outs, which suggests that the number of spin-offs in Scotland is higher relative to population size; 48 exited south of the border, which, again, is a higher proportion of the total number that you have presented.

I am trying to understand the point about our creating spin-outs but not retaining them. Your figures do not highlight that we are not retaining them.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

I have lifted the numbers off your graph; that is all.

Sir Michael, you have a case study and you mention two companies: Amphista Therapeutics and Exscientia, if I pronounced those correctly. Amphista started in 2017 and Exscientia in 2012, if I have got that right. Amphista’s latest accounts suggest that it made a substantial loss in 2020 and 2021. Its total number of employees is 20 and it has a net worth of minus £5 million.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

On your case study, which you mentioned earlier, you said that there is a need for a public-private fund that backs life sciences and innovation ideas. Can you say more about that?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

How do we ensure that, once we get out of the research and development phase, manufacturing jobs are retained in Scotland? Until fairly recently, my son worked in life sciences. An American investor was involved in that company, but despite the fact that all the R and D was done in Scotland, the manufacturing plant of that American investor was in Europe.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

No—there are a number of factors.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

I have another couple of questions. We talked about the golden triangle of Oxford, Cambridge and London, but Scotland has the highest proportion of higher education students enrolled in science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects, and a higher proportion of the Scottish population have completed higher education or have a degree. When we have a highly educated population and a lot of students in STEM subjects, what is the difficulty in retaining jobs here?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Has Brexit made that harder? Europe is a market of 550 million people. Is it harder for us to trade with it because of what has happened over recent years?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

“The economic contribution of the Pharmaceuticals Sector in Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 September 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Good morning. We have already touched on spin-offs; I want to understand the position a bit better. Adam McGeoch, as you are the author of the report, I come to you first.

In the report, you say that

“scale-up is a barrier to success and Scotland loses spin-outs and talent to England.”

However, in the same report, you say that such businesses

“supported by knowledge exchange from world renowned universities and extensive government support ... have made Scotland one of the largest life sciences clusters in Europe, made up of over 770 enterprises.”

You then go on to say that

“The number of businesses manufacturing pharmaceuticals has increased by 40% since 2010.”

I had a look back at your report on “The economic contribution of the pharmaceutical sector in Scotland” from 2017, which has a helpful table showing employment from 2009. In 2009, total pharmaceutical employment in Scotland was 2,200. In your current report, the figure for the wider pharmaceuticals sector is 5,900.

I am trying to understand, therefore, where the difficulty with spin-offs that has been referred to lies.