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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 April 2025
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Displaying 902 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Willie Rennie

By talking about record levels of improvement, you are implying that that has gone on for decades or centuries when it has been only a few years. I think that you are overstating the point.

I will come to my second point, which may help. Although the figures fluctuate from year to year, they are broadly the same as when we started. I accept the point about the pandemic, but if you look at primary school literacy levels you will see that the gap was in the low 20 percentage points when we first started and it is now in the low 20s. The numeracy gap was in the high teens and is still broadly in the high teens. The secondary school literacy gap at S3 is about 14 percentage points. There is an improvement in the S3 numeracy gap, from 15 to 12 percentage points, but it has not closed completely. To say that those are record numbers is overstating it. It is important that we are honest about the enormous challenges that we still face.

We also need to understand the real impact of the attainment challenge on the system. I would argue that we are nowhere near closing the poverty-related attainment gap or even substantially closing it, given that we are broadly flatlining. To say that we are at record levels is overstating the improvement that we are getting in some limited areas. Do you not accept that?

10:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Willie Rennie

I will make one point before Mr Gregory comes in—I am sure that he will be helpful. We did some calculations, although they are very crude, as you would expect. To close the S3 literacy gap completely would take 113 years. That is a ridiculous number, but it puts into context the fact that we are, in some areas, making some difference. We are nowhere near closing the gap and we need to be honest with ourselves about that, if we are going to introduce the right measures to tackle the challenge in a much more substantial way. Do you not accept that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Cabinet secretary, I would like to hear your reaction to yesterday’s decision. Previously, Mr Dey indicated that the door might still be open for further action from the Government, and £15 million of financial transactions has been allocated. I would like to understand whether that position has changed and whether more support will be forthcoming, because the proposed job losses at the University of Dundee are significant. At a fifth of the workforce, they are more than most people would have imagined.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Willie Rennie

That was well before the challenge was brought in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Willie Rennie

You have chosen a metric from well before the attainment challenge began.

The second set of statistics that you focus on is the ACEL figures, which started in 2016. Is it not a bit of an overstatement to say that we have record highs and lows when the statistics have been there for only nine years? Why are you overstating the significance of those numbers?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Precisely. My point is that you are overstating it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Willie Rennie

I will come back on that. It is down to teacher judgment, which is incredibly important, but teachers are under a lot of pressure overall to improve performance. How do you test the rigour of the information that you are receiving? Do you have an independent process to sample the data?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Willie Rennie

I did not say, “your price tag”. I said, “the price tag”.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Willie Rennie

I suppose that I am asking you now.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Thanks very much.