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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 December 2024
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Displaying 768 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

Yes, convener, since we are broadening things out a bit. I will try not to take up too much time.

We have had meetings with representatives of the private sector, who are deeply alarmed by what is almost an exodus of staff from private to council nurseries and the threat to the sector’s viability. The health check that you have mentioned is really important, but I am still not sure that the Government understands how severe the situation is for those businesses. It is important to ask about that not just because of the capacity that private nurseries offer but because of the flexibility that they provide, which council nurseries sometimes cannot. It might be useful if you were to write to us with the steps that you are taking to address that exodus of staff, which is related to the funding that the private sector has received. I am aware, though, that we are probably straying from the central purpose of the instrument.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

The commissioner’s office set out a much more pragmatic approach. It did not oppose preparing for future pandemics, but it set out a model of preparing the draft legislation for emergency purposes now and implementing it when an emergency arose. That would mean that we did not have to short-cut the parliamentary processes. Why have you not considered that route, which seems a sensible way to proceed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

You do not think that it will be contrary to the 2005 act to issue instructions and directions to the trustees.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

The children’s commissioner talked about the number of children who were in prison in Polmont and the fact that the proportion of children who were on remand increased throughout the pandemic from about 40 per cent to about 80 per cent, and no children were released early using the coronavirus powers. Have you looked into that issue, as the minister with a major interest in that area? What action will be taken to address those points?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

Can I stop you there? Why does a framework not get you to the same point in a different way? Nobody has been able to explain to me why a general framework is not the most appropriate way to proceed. You could take action against an institution that was not complying with the framework. Why do you have to be so prescriptive in areas that you do not know anything about?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

We do.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

I have a final question. I commend the Government for the fairness and reasonableness of its approach through the pandemic. There is no doubt that there was consensus. You brought us in and we engaged.

There is absolutely no guarantee that that will continue. You are now asking this Parliament to give you permanent powers for an emergency on the basis that you are nice and reasonable people. However, this Parliament cannot guarantee that that will be the case for evermore, so you are asking Parliament to take a big step in giving you those powers for evermore on the basis that you are fair and reasonable people. You are that now, but that might not be the case in the future. That is why I think that there is a real danger that you are asking us to do more than we should be doing.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

The Presiding Officer has got it wrong before, too. That is the whole point. The system got it wrong. How do you know that you have got it right this time?

09:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

We are talking about the children’s commissioner, who is appointed by Parliament. The commissioner’s office is an incredibly serious institution that considers such matters, and it would not have said what it said last week if it did not have any justification for doing so.

To be frank, the Scottish Government has got this wrong very recently, with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill, so what confidence does the Government have that it has got this bill right? Surely we cannot afford for this bill to be bogged down in the courts in the same way as the other bill has been. What can you tell us to convince us that the Government is right and the children’s commissioner is wrong?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Willie Rennie

Go on.