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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 1122 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

The Promise: Whole Family Wellbeing

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Willie Rennie

This is a question for Linda Richards. You said that the investment that you decided to make back in 2017 had an impact in 2019 and that you are now saving money. As I understand it, the whole family wellbeing fund is a change fund. It is designed to get local authorities and the wider system to disinvest from areas of spend that are not working and to invest in ones that are working.

Will that work as a result of the whole family wellbeing fund? Will you create capacity in Perth and Kinross Council’s budget to be able to do some of the schemes that have been talked about today? Is that happening in practical terms, or will you need additional funds or the wellbeing fund to continue to make sure that that work continues or can you disinvest locally?

11:00  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

The Promise: Whole Family Wellbeing

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Willie Rennie

It is about early intervention. You say that you want mothers to come forward early, but you do not have the capacity to deal with them early, so what happens?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

But that does not close the gap.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

Excellent.

Okay. I will move on to the whole family wellbeing fund, is that money being spent?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

Thank you very much.

I have one final question on early learning and childcare, and it is my usual question about the gap between the private, voluntary and independent sector and council nurseries. When will that gap be closed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

That is good and detailed work, and I am pleased that it is happening, but I am just not sure that it captures the scale of the challenge. There are two particular figures that I have identified. One is the net liquidity days figure, and the other is the cash flow percentage figure. In the four or five years from 2021, the net liquidity days figure has gone from 193 to 125. That is an indication of how sustainable the institutions are. The net cash flow figure has gone from 14 per cent to 5 per cent. Those are big reductions. I know that it is very technical, but they are an indication of the sustainability of the institutions.

We also know that there is huge variability. My constituency’s University of St Andrews is hugely different from the university that I went to in Paisley, so there are huge variations. Does the minister accept that the figures are a symptom of the current crisis that we have in some institutions? Does he accept that the figures give us an understanding of why we are facing crises? Is that the issue, or is something else going on?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

I am talking about the gap in funding for institutions and the fact that there is discrimination, in that workers in council nurseries, who are doing exactly the same jobs as their colleagues in the private sector, are paid more.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

There is one final thing. The previous First Minister, Humza Yousaf, promised to close the gap. Is that still the commitment?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

I accept that the previous UK Government was not helpful in this area, although there was a massive 180-degree turn at the last minute. I accept that, and it had some real effects on institutions. The fact is, however, that Scottish institutions were forced to go down that route, in effect, because of the figures that I have just highlighted. I have sat here before and had a discussion with the cabinet secretary and her predecessor about overexposure not just to individual countries but to the globe, and the fact that we are dependent on that funding to cross-subsidise into teaching and research.

We should not get distracted by that. We need to focus on the fact that institutions are more vulnerable, and we have seen the effects of that with the universities in Dundee and Aberdeen, and there have been reports today about the University of the West of Scotland. Does the minister accept that the policy that has been pursued for the past decade is just not sustainable for the next decade? We will see a continuation of the liquidity and cash flow figures, and there will be some real consequences. Does the minister accept that that needs to be addressed?

Similar to the issue that Miles Briggs raised, there needs to be a more substantial and urgent debate, otherwise we are just going to drift into a greater crisis. Does the minister accept that?