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To be honest, I am really disappointed by that response. Last year, Matthew Sweeney from COSLA acknowledged that there was a significant difference, and it was agreed, right at the beginning, between Government and local authorities that that would happen.

We see real threats to the sector now. The PVI bodies are getting staff, but they need to keep experienced staff. I worry about the integrity of bodies and that we will, perhaps, in the future get Care Inspectorate reports that indicate that we have not managed to keep up with the standards that you mentioned earlier. I am disappointed that you do not recognise that.

In that light, do you think that we are educating too many primary school teachers?

Neatly dodged.

You are absolutely right that the situation is “historical” and “baked in”, but people’s expectations of the PVI sector are almost exactly the same as they are of council nurseries. People expect the same service from both, when it comes to care and education. So, although you are right, that does not make the situation right. We need to work on a plan to bring them closer together, do we not? Do we need to bring them closer together?

Mr Bain, thank you for the clarity with which you are speaking this morning, which is helpful. You mentioned Insight. Is Insight part of the problem? Are we measuring the right things with Insight?

I am interested in how you view the state of the PVI sector in early learning and childcare. What are the pressures? Perhaps Carrie could talk us through that first.

Do they really amount to that difference?

I suppose that Fiona Robertson was setting out that there is a tension. There are tensions throughout this—I get that—but there is a tension between the choice for those people who will go down a particular path and the choice for others. A choice might have to be made as to whose interests are put first. Ultimately, this is about the timetable: can we get it to work? We are reducing teacher contact time, and extra elements will be brought into the timetable. Have you modelled that? I know that you are still at the high principle level, but have you modelled it to see how it would look and what the compromises would be?

Okay. Thank you.

You will have received communications and letters similar to the ones that I have received from primary school teachers who gave up other careers or have been really passionate about teaching young people and have had their dreams torn away from them. Some can only get a series of short-term contracts—in some cases, for up to six years—and others cannot find a job at all. We have not got it right just now, have we? I get that it is a difficult balancing act and that the situation goes in cycles, but it is particularly bad just now, is it not?